Help with nervous/submissive urination AND leash training

[Loril Hawk]

Colter is so very shy.  He runs away from me and tries to hide when I approach him-and I  don't approach him aggressively. I never look him straight in the eye and I try to get down closer to his level. If I get close enough to him to grab his collar, he pees.  I have never been around such a scared and sensitive dog.  I am not sure how to potty train him because of this.  If I even gently scold him he gets scared and pees. I have to pick him up and carry him when he gets like this because he'll run and try to hide.  Also, when he's outside, he won't pee.  He'll be out playing and come into the house and pee.  I took him out by himself (which he didn't like and tried to get back into the house) and tried to get him to go, but he always runs back to the porch.  He won't follow me around the yard at all.  He just runs away from me. 

 I've only had him for a little less than two weeks, though.  Will it take him longer to get used to us? 

And then there's leash training.  He hates it.  He jumps rolls, pulls back. 

I have never had issues like this before--the submissive/scared urination or leash training.  He is so scared/shy/timid that I don't know what to do.  When he's out playing with Cody, my Golden, Cody will accidentally run into Colter and the pup yelps and runs and hides. 

Anyone else have these issues with their puppies?  He's only 4 months old, too.  Am I expecting too much from him?  Do you think he will calm down and not urinate whenever he's approached?  And what are your leash training tips.  HELP??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"If the rest of the litter did not truly have these problems"
Without making an issue of this, because it doesn't really help Loril or Colter, that's a big "if". Loril has only the breeder's word for it, and we have seen that some less-than-exemplary breeders tend to say that any dog with any kind of problem is the only one they've ever had like that.
But I still think that even if it's true, these things aren't inborn. I think they develop after birth. Litter experiences-that is, a puppy's place in his pack of siblings, and their interactions- can have a tremendous impact on a puppy's personality, as well as the mother's attitude toward & treatment of an individual puppy.
I do think it's more important to solve the problem than to speculate on why the problem exists. I just think it often helps to discuss extreme temperament issues with the vet. There are sometimes underlying physical issues.

[Kyoko]

Charlie is somewhat timid, sensitive and nervous type of girl. She also had submissive urination when she was younger, when new people came into the house. We picked her up at 7 weeks from one male, one female breeder, whose children played with the puppies... so, I think this is her personality trait for most part, or she became this way shortly after birth due to litter experiences like Karen said. She was a smallest puppy of the littler, so who knows if the mother sort of rejected her or not...But her nervousness was never to the extent as described for Colter. She was never afraid or shy from us, and have great eye contact and enjoy interactions with us. However, She and I have been working diligently to address the issue to prevent her fear from turning into aggression. She is now 16 months old, we have been with this wonderful trainer for about 10 months. It takes time, and lots of effort. But, once you can build a great trusting relationship with Colter, I believe he can over come most of these fear and insecurity. 10 months in dogs school may seems silly to some people, but I feel it is important because she is who she is. I probably would not do it, if she was more mellow / confident dog. Loril, it would be nice if you can find a good trainer near you, who can focus on behavior issues not just sit, down, etc...

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Hi Sounds like Coulter is very shy and ultra sensitive. Don't worry about the submissive peeing and do not notice it. Just act as if nothing happened and clean it up afew minutes or so later. My Roo, who is anything but shy was a submissive pee-er until he was about six months and then very occasionally until about one. If you say anything about it at all it will get worse. Just pretend it is not happening and don't touch him or talk to him.

I think Coulter is a good choice for what is called an umbilical cord. It is really just a long leash. Go to the hardware store and by about 50 feet of soft thin cotton rope and three leash type snaps. Make three rope leashes, one to wear, one in the wash and one to use next - like sheets. When you are home and it is at all feasible hook Coulter to you at all times either collar or harness. If he can not be hooked to you he needs the safety and security of a cage, even if he complains. Tie the other end to you, wrist, belt loop whatever. Coulter will almost certainly think this is a very poor idea. Nevermind it will take only a day or two to make him think otherwise. Fill you pocket with little tiny wonderful treats. Petstores carry itsy bitsy treats for training and you are training Coulter to understand that you are the most wonderful person in the world. As he follows you around you will drop a treat without comment when he is following and quiet, not pulling back or complaining. You may have to stop walking occasionally to get this started. Also during this "umbilical period" Coulter gets food only from you while you are sitting on the floor feeding him one piece at a time. Most dogs will come around in a couple of days of this "intensive care", Coulter may take a week.

Take him outside every 30 minutes or so while Coulter is tied to you. If he potties - good on him - but very gentle soft good dog is sufficient. If he potties inside, no comment, just clean it up. You are not going to get him housetrained until he is calm and confident around you. When he is still tied to you and thinks you are a good deal, then you can potty train in ernest, but praise for success only. No scolding or no or even a comment until Coulter has turned into a sassy pants pup.

One other really weird thing. If you are in the habit of using cologne or perfume, stop for awhile. I actually have known dogs that were put off by cologne!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think this is fantastic advice! It is certainly a commitment, but I watched a very shy, submissive dog in my puppy training class gain confidence when the owner (at the trainer's suggestion) moved to the tether and hand feeding...and lots of praise and treats. The first two of weeks of training this dog did not participate. He sat on the sidelines tethered to the owner who just calmly petted him and gave him small treats throughout the session. There was "submissive pee" from the time he arrived. He's doing better now, and he'll even play with the other puppies for a few minutes at the end of the sessions - the trainer selects the dogs that he plays with. The owner brings his bed to class, and if he gets "stressed" he gets to go and lie on his bed with the owner sitting next to him. Then when he's more comfortable he gets up and comes back into the class. It's very slow, but I have seen definite progress. The range of temperaments among the puppies in my class is so interesting to me...it ranges from this extremely shy puppy to a couple who are totally confident and "fearless" (very alpha). They are all being trained the same basic commands, but the approach (and learning curve) is different for each pup. Good luck....with patience I really believe you'll turn this around.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Maryann, I think this is really an excellent idea. The crate or the tether. The hand feeding, one piece at a time will reinforce the notion that all things good and necessary come from Loril. This pup sounds like he cannot tolerate any negative and positive reinforcement and praise will be the way to go. And patience. Ruling out a medical cause for his timidity would also be important. I am not a trainer or a behaviorist, just another doodle mom, but this makes so much sense to me based on the information Loril has provided on DK since she got Coulter. I hope we get follow up about this; I will be looking.

[Doris, Knox & Flash]

Loril, I'll add my two-cents worth...I really like the idea of tying Colter to you. My puppy kindergarten trainer has suggested that to our class and I have been very tempted to try it as Knox could still use some improvement in the potty training department. He really never has the chance to get off of tile floors and onto the carpet, but when he does, he takes advantage of the opportunity! I think he smells Tahoe on the carpets and needs to mark his territory, even though I'm not sure that he's old enough to "mark territories" yet. Colter really won't have a chance to run and hide when he's tethered to you and that will be a good thing. The game of chase is a losing game with puppies and the more you have to chase him, the worse it gets. I love the ideas of treats in helping him "like" you. Bribery is very effective with puppies, and my trainer says to TREAT, TREAT, TREAT away. Basically, if Colter just glances your way when you call his name, he deserves a treat. We do clicker training in our kindergarten class, and treats are what it's all about!! You have to find something that motivates him and I would suggest cheap turkey/chicken/ham sandwich meat from Krogers, etc. Our trainer comes loaded with it to class and it's amazing what our puppies will do for her! I know you are getting advice from owners with much more experience than me and all of it sounds great to me. Please don't get discouraged! Good luck!! .

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Just an additional word. I said Coulter would be 'over it" in about a week. Not trained, just thinking you are his friend. The more time you spend on training a dog on a leash the more confident s/he will be. But he has to be comfortable around you first.

And finally I tie my dogs to me for at least the first three months I have them, often longer. You both get used to it. It prevents a lot of mishaps, destruction, etc and it is great bonding.

Take heart and have patience, Coulter is one of God's creatures and he has been entrusted to you.

[Loril Hawk]

Well, today we've had some progress. When I was making my bed this morning, he came bounding upstairs, but as soon as I walked toward him, he turned and ran back downstairs. So I went and got some treats and went back to bed making. Soon, he came bounding back up the stairs, and when he stood and looked at me, I threw him a treat, which he ate cautiously. Then as I continued making my bed, he stayed and watched. So, when I finished, I walked over to him and he just sat there and let me pet his head and rub his ears. And he got another treat. PROGRESS!!

I also have a leash on him and he's running around with it. No issues so far. I don't have a leash long enough to tether him to me yet.

Also, as far as whether he's from a mill, he's not. I drove to Pennsylvania, to the breeders home, to pick him up. A beautiful home with a small kennel out back that houses her doodle litters and parents. It's a nice kennel where they can come inside or go outside. All she raises are Goldendoodles. I doubt the pups have ever been in her house, though. Just in the kennel or out in the yard. And, he has also been vet checked and he's healthy.

And, Colter does let me pet him and cuddle him if I pick him up and hold him or if he's laying next to me on the sofa. He is very affectionate. It is only when he's on his own four feet that he runs away from me and hides. Inside or outside. When Cody and are playing "throw the tennis ball" Colter will chase Cody (not interested in the ball yet), and then turn and run back to the porch. If we keep playing, he'll do that several times. When I try to go up to him in the yard, he runs to his hiding place under the hedge. If I keep calling him, he will eventually come out.

And, so far this morning, no submissive urination. So, we've had a little bit of progress, but every little bit counts, right?

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful comments. I have read each one and you all are telling me things that make sense. I will keep working with him and I do plan on taking him to a trainer. Actually, I found out from this board that there is one pretty close to me her in Jersey.

[Kyoko]

Wow! Great!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I hope you email me.

[Loril Hawk]

WHOO HOO!! I just called him and he came right up to me. A much better day!!

[Adina P]

Awesome...what a wonderful update!