Getting Into Cat's Litterbox...UGH!

[Christine and Daisy]

Hi All:

 

I'm 60% deaf (with hearing aids) and I missed part of the the visiting animal behaviourist saying to hubby and I to remove the barriers we had so my two adult cats and the puppy can get along better. I thought she said to keep her tethered to us, or put her in the metal puppy area when we can't watch her which is what I was doing. She is still blocked from going upstairs and down and she's not allowed in the den where my two cats have their food and posts. She is allowed free roam in livingroom, diningroom, kitchen and front entry. However, when I tether her to me, all she does is chew the leash, for the most part. I will give her a chew toy with pumpkin or a treat bone and she'll happily attack those for a few minutes while laying on a blanket at my feet, then it's back to the leash. She already chewed through a Lupine leash that she's used for one week. She's now using my cat's leash til we get a replacement. Her leash is the 1/2" size but the next one will be 3/4 or 1".

We kind of got into an argument last night as I had her tethered to me all evening. It was a little challenging when I tried to sit down and watch Dancing With The Stars. She was chewing the leash while laying at my feet, so I took it off and just held onto her with her collar (but with slack). I was struggling & hubby asked why I wasn't allowing her free roam. Then we discovered he had a different understanding about what the behaviourist had said.

 

Hubby gets up earlier than me and recently started taking her out for her AM walks. I woke up at 6am to see puppy running around our bedroom! She must have broken through the stairs barrier somehow. She stunk like poop and I saw what looked like poop all down the carpeted hallway. We've been living in our brand new home for just over a month.

Apparently, while being given free roam downstairs, unattended, she broke through the stairs barrier and came up straight to the cat's litterboxes, where she ate a bunch of poop and tracked it everywhere! She also shredded some paper towel that he had upstairs, some of which had Nature's Miracle on it.

She has it all in her hair (hubby then left for work) and her breath stinks something awful.

 

How do you get rid of poop breathe on puppy? We've never even brushed her teeth! I don't have time to bathe her, I leave for work 30 mins after hubby and I get ready in that time period.

 

Hubby would rather listen to the advice of animal behaviourist than what this site is telling him...I challenged him on that fact that one person can't be right when 150+ others are telling me something different and they've been through it all. He is believing in the label that the behaviourist gave Daisy, that she's a "special needs" dog and not like the rest out there. I tried to read him posts from 5 other people who are going through the exact same thing and he didn't listen! He said it was confusing to him because they don't know our situation. We are having a really tough time, fighting almost every night. We already have a challening marriage, my Mum passed away 6 months after we got married three years ago which sent me into a depression. Hubby didn't know how to respond so he wasn't helping me emotionally at all and made my life way harder so I asked him to move out a year ago. He came back a changed man, after 3 months but has slowly reverted back to being negative (he calls it 'practical' and not meeting my emotional needs.

 

Since we moved into our new house there's been a few big fights and now this is making it worse with the puppy. I take care of her more than he does and I was fine to do it my way which I learned from reading books, watching tv and reading this site. Hubby wants to watch tv & fall asleep on couch while giving pup free roam of certain areas. I am calling behaviourist today to confirm what she said and looking for a marriage counsellor at the same time!

 

Sorry for the long winded personal story, but I had so explain a few things....

 

Thanks for any pointers!

 

Christine

[BG and Gavin]

Sorry for your difficult situation Christine.

I concur with advice from others, your doodle seems like just a high energy puppy. It is very hard to match their energy at that age, especially when you are taking on most of the load yourself. Plus it's hard to be consistent if someone else in the house has different ideas about what to do.

I beleive in as much exercise as you can so the puppy is good and tired. They need physical and mental stimulation. Some ideas we used: structured walks, fetch in the yard, fetch in the house (while watching TV) hiding treats around the room, puzzle balls, marrow bones and kongs filled with wet dog food and carrots or peanut butter or cheeze spread and kibble and frozen, hiding on the dog in the house, make her be with you where ever you go (bathroom, laundry room, kitchen) practice commands (sit, down, stay, shake), get to puppy class ASAP. If she is chewing her teather, get a leash that has a length of chain at the end and use that. Have a pocket full of treats and give her a small morsel every time you catch her being good along with soft verbal praise. I am by no means a training expert, but I just went through raising a puppy (he is 9.5 months now) and these are things that worked for me.

Hang in there. Sometimes the sleep deprivation in the first couple of weeks makes things look worse. On the upside, I lost 5 lbs during the early stage!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

There is no way Daisy is a "special needs" puppy. She is just a puppy. In my opinion, you should try to find a puppy kindergarten class soon. Or get some training for yourself on "clicker" training - others recommended it to you in your other discussion. It is positive reinforcement that rewards good behavior - you can actually shape their behavior with this method. We did not start clicker training until our Peri was fully vaccinated at 16 weeks. BUT, I spent much time teaching her sit, stay, leave it, off, etc....before then.
Every time she listens to you and focuses on you, give her a small treat. If you call her name and she looks at you say "Yes" and treat her. Really, sounds simple, but it works. Try to go ahead and get a good trainer that specializes in the positive reinforcement type. You could even get them to come to your house and do private lessons while she is still so young.

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Hi Christine,

I'm sorry you are going through such a tough situation. I can imagine the stress!

I'm no behaviorist nor am I an expert, but I can't imagine why your behaviorist is advocating that a new puppy be allowed to wander anywhere unsupervised. I think that could be unsafe for the puppy. Two days ago, Barley knocked a porcelain bowl over and it shattered. He immediately dove for a piece and tried to eat it. Praise God I was right there and could quickly take it from him. Anyway, maybe your behaviorist meant to allow her to roam (not being tethered) while you and her husband could watch her. My understanding from reading books, the Internet, my trainer and personal experience is that a puppy will be safer and more secure in a crate if you can't watch her. Also, I've read that it's good to introduce a dog slowly to different rooms of the house, rather than letting it have free run all at once. You and your husband don't want to unintentionally set the puppy up for failure. Too much freedom too fast = trouble! I kept Barley out of the carpeted rooms until he was consistent with his house training. Also, I hope you and your husband can come to an agreement about puppy rules. Lack of consistency will confuse and stress the puppy. I'm dealing with that myself. My mother has unintentionally taught Barley to jump up on her to give "hugs". Well, now he jumps up on everybody and it's really annoying. He never did that before and used to sit at everyone's feet waiting to be petted. Aargh!!!

Also, your puppy still sounds like a normal puppy to me. I guess I don't understand the term "special needs." If that's the case, all of our four dogs were "special" puppies. As far as the litterbox goes, we have the litterbox in one corner. Then we have a gate set up against the adjacent walls, so the litterbox is in a triangular-shaped area. We also have one of those lidded/enclosed litterboxes. The litterbox entrance is facing the wall, so it's now doubly protected from the dogs and they can't get in. The cats simply jump over the gate. We've never had a dog who didn't eat cat poop, dead animals the cats brought home, or anything else disgusting you can think of. Again, you're not alone in that!

Hang in there! Raising a puppy is hard work. I went without sleep for weeks, but now it's a lot easier. The first six months can be horrible at times, but the reward will be about 12 to 15 years of great joy with your fuzzy best friend.

[Minga & Malu & Costa]

Daisy is EXACTLY like the rest of the dogs out there! I have owned dogs my entire life. As stated MANY times before, she is a PUPPY. She also does not speak English, contrary to popular belief of human beings thinking that dogs should just understand us when we speak to them (LOL). We are verbal communicators, dogs are body language readers. You have to agree on the commands that you will use and the techniques around the household so that everything is as consistent for the puppy as possible (as also already stated).

If I could give you my copies of Patricia McConnell and Sophia Yin to read I would! They will help you sooooo much.

Unfortunately, there will be no keeping any dog from eating cat poop. It is "meaty" (high protein diet) and dogs love love LOVE it. The best thing to do is place/position the cat box where only the cats can get to it. In our house, we have the cat box in a bedroom that is baby gated off. If Daisy can jump a regular baby gate, get a taller one.

Also, get a new behaviorist and take Daisy to puppy Kindergarten ASAP. The Puppy K trainer can help you with all those things.

If you don't know how to use a clicker trainer, here is the run down. First click, then treat. Click, treat. Click treat. Wait about 1-2 seconds to treat after the click. Do this for about one day, on and off, 5 minute sessions through out the day. Make the treats really tiny pieces about the size of pinkie nail.

Then, you use the treats to lure her to do things (sit, down, off the couch) and the INSTANT she does the behavior you are looking for, CLICK. The instant!!! That click is the marker that she did what you wanted (not the treat) Then treat 1-2 seconds after the Click. All this good stuff is in the Yin book. So to recap, the click is the marker for the behavior you want to happen. After click = treat. Must always click the second she does what you want. i.e., for "sit" as soon as butt hits the ground CLICK! then treat. eventually you will phase out the treats (intermittently give them instead of everytime) as well as the clicker over time and replace with praise, petting, toys, whatever. The Puppy K class will likely go over all of that.

Hope that helps!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Christine - I have been thinking about your situation more and more. What made you decide to get a dog right now, with everything going on in your life (I am not trying to be judgemental, just being a devils' advocate you could say!)? I have to say, most puppies are a pain in the butt, no matter which way you slice it. I think the doodles can be even tougher because they are very smart and high energy. They must be mentally and physically exercised constantly when they are younger. Even at 13 months, my Peri needs her daily walks and training times. Still! My point is that my husband and I were always in constant communication about handling our crazy puppy Peri. We had to be on the same page - we were both ready for a puppy, completely. We still had some little tifts, mainly because it is stressful having a puppy - no one ever said that would be easy.

I think you really need to make a firm committment to Miss Daisy. She is just being a normal puppy and she needs you AND your husband to train her and provide the guidance she needs right now. We started training Peri immediately and also kept her containted to the same room with us when we were home and crated her when we were gone. I can count on two hands the number of times she had an accident. She has never torn up a shoe. We still get up and close doors to rooms if she is wandering back looking for trouble (like a sock, for example). They just can't be left to make their own judgement calls - they really don't know right from wrong in the younger days (if ever!). These puppies need their human owners' help in order for them to grow up to be great dogs - a well-behaved dog seldom just turns out that way. It takes a lot of hard work.

[Adina P]

Puppies are a pain in the butt. They really are...most of the time. They zoom from one activity to another. They poop or pee suddenly and without warning. They have fits. They like chewing on all sorts of inappropriate things. They are in constant need of supervision. So Daisy will continue to try your patience and last nerve for a few more months to come. Get ready....! I've wanted to scream when upon coming home I'd find Rosco in his crate, covered in poo. It only happened 2-3 times his whole life, but it was NOT fun. And less than a year ago I came home to find a large turd on the dining room carpet (I had three dogs at the time). It was fresh and unstepped on. Rosco was near. JUUUUUST as I was trying to send ESP messages to Rosco to freeze and not move backwards he did and stepped in it...tracking it out the living room and kitchen on his way outside. Ugghhh!!!! S*** happens when you have dogs and it's a pain and stinky and it makes you want to question your sanity in every getting a dog, but if you really want a dog and love dog ownership, it's a tiny sliver of life with a dog. Those moments aren't common and the fun, rewarding, companionship is what you get the vast majority of the time.

Getting a pup, while GREAT in so many ways, is often a backwards way to start in some ways. Especially if you're a first time dog owner--but it's how many people start. But it is TOUGH because if you've never owned a dog before and this is your first experience it makes you want to give up. Before you've bonded with the furry monster, before you've become a true dog lover you start with the WORST most trying period of dog ownership. Yet, pups are the cutest and most attractive way to start...and you get to enjoy your dog from the very beginning. There are pros and cons.

You've started this journey at the most difficult end of things--as you can see. It all seems upside down and confusing. Books contradict each other. Trainers contradict each other. What do you do? And you're used to CATS--cats are practically stuffed animals compared to dogs. They pretty much take care of themselves...they potty train in a snap, they barely need any attention and when they do they do gentle things like rub up against you instead of steal socks and run as fast as they can to get you to chase them. CATS are practically aliens from another universe compared to dogs.

Christine, you've entered a whole new dimension...are you ready?

And here are ALL of us trying to console you, but you still feel overwhelmed, like nothing is working. I've BEEN there. I had Rosco: The little puppy also known as "JAWS" -- who I thought would eat me before he turned one year of age. I asked the same questions 100 times and never got the answers that seemed right. Maybe some were right...but they didn't work for me when *I* tried them so ... it was very difficult.

And that's how it sometimes is with pups. You seem like someone who is very regimented and careful and does things according to instructions. You probably feel like you mixed all the ingredients for cupcakes exactly right and now you've opened the oven and you found a pancake and can't figure out what you did wrong. Well...like good cooks, good dog owners learn (with TIME) that some things you just have to do by taste and you get creative.

I am no marriage counselor so I can't help you there, but I do know that you can't change your partner's behavior---only your own. One important question I think is are you prepared to be Daisy's sole caregiver regardless of whether hubby is in the picture or not? She doesn't sound any more difficult than the average high energy breed pup. She really doesn't. Poo in the house, eating cat poo (a delicacy for dogs), running around like crazy, nipping, chewing leash...aaaaah so so so normal and puppy like. Are you okay with this? She will continue to do more annoying things. Can you handle it and just say "ah well...she's a dog."

That does not mean you accept annoying behavior and not prevent it or work on it...but you do have to accept crummy things WILL happen and not to think your dog is broken.

Like someone else asked...what was it about dog ownership that attracted you to it at this time in your life?
What are your hopes and dreams about dog ownership?
What makes a dog seem attractive to you...vs. owning another cat or two?

If you want it bad enough...you can have a WONDERFUL dog out of Daisy. Just expect it to suck some days...and to be trying some days. But overall, with your input of time and training it will not only get better but be fabulous!!! Just remember training of a puppy doesn't happen overnight, or in a week, or in a month ... but many many months depending on the behavior you're working with.

Good luck Christine. If this behaviorist isn't helpful, though, there are others out there...no need to stick to her if she isn't useful.

[Christine and Daisy]

I have been a huge contributor to the community my whole life. I have volunteered many hours because I enjoyed doing it. I still sometimes go on a weekend to a group home and take my clients out because we have a real friendship, not a paycheque friendship. One of the places I volunteered at in the early 2000's was the SPCA. I did the dog walking program and I just loved it. I have always wanted a dog, and that's why I joined. I have a great love for animals and I have my two cats but wanted more. I would love to have another dog as well but I'll start off slowly..definitely.
We were always in a small apt or townhouse that had a two pet rule. We were waiting til we moved into our new home. Finally it happened in April, and we brought our puppy home. She was going on 4 months already - and I didn't want to wait any longer because I knew about the early socialization potential problems and I wanted to avoid that.

When Daisy arrived, as you know, there was confusion because the programs I watched and the books I read failed to mention everything about personality. They make it seem like it is effortless and all puppies wag their tails at strangers and want to be petted. I wasn't prepared for the puppy that's afraid of everyone and growling/barking/nipping at people who come up to her too fast. She is so afraid of everything. If we are in the car, passing a big truck on her right she will practically jump into my lap! There are so many things that make her timid. I do not console her whatsoever, I help her deal with it as best I can by exposing her daily to things she's nervous about.
The behaviorist called her a 'special needs' dog because she's so timid. She thought that Daisy may have had little to no socializing with anyone other than her littermates and family that was raising her. Daisy's sister is just as timid, but her two brothers are typical friendly, love-everybody puppies. For some reason the two girls are very shy and the two boys outgoing and they all had the same socializing. Sounds like it's something they are born with. She called Daisy a feral pup because she was nipping the lady so much and freaking out. That's where the title came from. Not from just her regular puppy ways - which I guess I didn't word properly.

I phoned the behaviorist today and clarified what she said about the free roaming. Hubby was mistaken, she did not say unattended roaming was okay. She said to put puppy in crate or pen when we cannot be in the same room as her. So, that solves that. Common sense would tell you that it's not a smart thing to do. We had 'information overload' the day of the visit. The handouts included hand signals, not the theory part. Some of it was bound to be mistaken and/or forgotten.
I have signed Daisy up to the Puppy Education class at Petsmart. Classes start this Saturday for 8 weeks. I am really looking foward to that. We will take her together. I am really looking forward to her getting out to meet new friends and having distractions while training.

Yes, I am completely prepared to raise Daisy on my own and my two cats with any children if they happen to come along in the future if need be. I am a very independent person and always have been. The problem we are having is we always both think we are right and we are working on communicating better and compromising. We both dearly love Daisy dearly and our other animals and only want the best for them. We were arguing about the best way to care for her. She has pretty much done the same thing since she arrived...we are not using different ideas constantly. She is coming along a little more each day. I heard that it takes about two weeks for her to settle completely.
There are just so many things I had questions on and still do. I am a concerned Mom and want to do the right thing for her. I'd much rather do more than less, but I am a bit of a worrywort and need to relax with her. I know in a few months this will have passed and I'll be very relieved to have survived puppyhood. No book, program, or friend I had really let me know how tough puppyhood really is. I wish now that I was better prepared. In the beginning it was all about Brad Pattison, then Cesar Millan after Daisy arrived. Now I know that Sophia Yin, Patricia McConnell and Dr. Ian Dunbar are the best books to read...eventually I will have read them all and do what works best for me.

[shelly]

Oh Christine I feel so bad for you! I'm glad you found this site. There are so many people on here that can help you with Daisy! I HATE 'labels'! I am a teacher and all too quickly other teachers are so fast to label a child. It almost gives them a reason for not trying harder with that child. ALL children learn differently, and what 'works' for one doesn't for another just as puppies do. You must keep trying many of the different techniques and see what works best for you and Daisy, and stick to that! It TRULY is a very difficult time. I have had dogs all of my life, and never can remember the frustration that I felt training Tori. It's truly upsetting and can seriously wear on your nerves! I kept comparing her early days to that when my first son was born - it's something you want so badly and are very excited anticipating the arrival, happy music playing in your mind.....however, when in reality, stress takes over and makes the moments when things are not 'perfect', feel so much worse because of our expectations. Keep training! You BOTH will make it, and one day you will be sharing this time with future puppy-owners!

[Minga & Malu & Costa]

That is actually a key point, read lots of training books, then choose the one that fits you best! Obviously for me, the ones I suggested are best for me, therefore I recommend them. But definitely read many, many books and then keep those that you agree with the methodology and theories.

You will get there! :)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

First of all, all puppies have "special needs", and I would have some serious concerns about any behaviorist who would label your puppy in that way. As others have said, she's just behaving like a puppy...that's just how they are. They're like babies in that they are totally dependent on us for everything, and they NEED us to teach them how to behave. They are not born knowing what to do or how to act in our world. They need to know they are loved and they need to build trust. Once that loving base is in place we start on our journey of training our puppy to be a happy, healthy dog who knows what is expected and acts accordingly. When we're deciding to purchase or adopt a puppy it's so important that we have a clear and realistic understanding of what's ahead. Bringing home a new dog is an extremely stressful event, even when everything else is perfect. Our lives are turned upside down. If you and your partner are not on the same page from the beginning, that added stress can be very difficult for a relationship. I'm wondering if you didn't realize this when you were considering a new puppy...did you talk things through and mutually arrive at a plan for how you would make this work? I'm also wondering if you've "fallen in love" with your puppy? I know that the first time I saw my puppies they melted my heart, and I knew then I would do anything for them. So, cleaning up poop or vomit, or having them destroy the living room carpet was upsetting and frustrating, but I loved them so much that it seemed inconsequential on the overall scheme of things. Have you built that bond yet, and do you think you will? That's really an important question for you to consider.
As for the tethering. There are a couple of reasons for this...one is to build the bond. The other is so that the minute you observe inappropriate behavior, you can correct and STOP it immediately. The fact that the puppy was chewing and destroying the leash while tethered to you would say that you did not correct and stop the behavior. That's so important. If she she was able to destroy the leash right in front of you then she certainly didn't learn that that is not behavior that is going to be tolerated.
I know this must be such a difficult time for you, and I really feel badly about that. Before your puppy gets too attached you may want to think very realistically about whether you can manage everything that will be required going forward. If you and your husband decide that you're in it for the "long haul", and that you love this puppy enough to do whatever it takes, then I applaud you, and we're all here for you. If not, that would also be a very brave and selfless decision. My thoughts and prayers are with you that you can make the decision that will be best for everyone, no matter what that is. Again, please remember that we are all here to help and support you. Thanks for having the courage to reach out and share all that you're going through right now.

[Sandra Griffith]

You poor thing!! The tethers that I like to use for those mischievous little puppies are the "tie-out cables" sold at stores like Petco and Petsmart. They usually have a snap at both ends and are made of a wire cable covered in plastic. They have different weights- I usually go for the lightest weight. you can make a loop out of one end to attach to you by snapping the snap around the cable. Please do not use these as tie-out cables outside.

To help your puppy with her nerves try taking her out to new places as much as possible. Start with fairly low stress areas to begin with and click and treat her like crazy. Work your way up to higher stress areas and let your puppy be your guide as to how fast you progress. If the puppy won't eat treats that she normally eats at home, then she is most likely in too high a stress environment (do use your highest value treats).

It sounds as though you have been working really hard at being the best dog mommy that you can be. If only more people did this...

Remember, Daisy will hopefully be with you for a long time. All puppies have their foibles but these situations will be fodder for all of the wonderful tales that you will share about Daisy in the future with laughter.

[Tracy L Boring]

We went through the litter box thing with our puppy. He got into it the first morning we had him, and then jumped up on to the bed and licked my face all over. I thought I was going to throw up. I gave him pieces of apple, and it freshened his breath up. Each time he went to the litter box after that, I stood in front of him and the litter box. I did that for about a week. He never messed with it again. My son kept him on a leash with him or in his crate, when no one could supervise him. I think the settling in process took about 4 1/2 weeks. My seven year old son did buddy training with me. We worked pretty hard. It was so much fun. I trained the pup for the first training class. The instructor evaluated my son with the dog, and then allowed him to work with him from that point on. They have done Obedience classes together, Canine Good Citizen, and now they are working on Agility. My son spends about 10 minutes a day doing basic commands with his dog. After working on basic commands, they do fun stuff. The pup turned a year old in November and is just the most spectacular dog/puppy. I think you are going to enjoy this puppy so much. Good luck. The puppy phase will pass.