Alpha theory vs. Positive training...HELP...so confused!

[Julie Mison]

Many of you know that my mom and I have posted on and off about our Chewie who is now 15 months.  We have used trainers that first taught us about Alpha theory/dominance to more recently complete positive reinforcement training.  Our recent trainer has given us literature disputing the dominance theory and alpha research.  However, we continue to struggle with Chewie and are very overwhelmed.  We know, in part, we need to be more consistent, however, it feels like Chewie runs the show and we always have to use treats to get him to listen.

 

Chewie does display very challenging and dominant type behaviors.  He barks at us when he wants something, paws at us, jumps at us and mouths us to try to get us to do things.  When he doesn't like something...he will bark at us.  He has had a history of resource guarding and handling issues since he was very young.  First time he growled and snapped...he was just over 8 weeks of age when we tried to pick him up when he was tired at night.  He is like this with his high value items and at times when handled.  We typically know his "triggers" but nonetheless it feels like we always have to watch out. 

 

We have two young girls....7 and 8.5 and we love Chewie very much.  He loves the kids but gets very demanding with them as well.  Interesting, he is very well behaved when he goes to day care/camp and they even use him to help temperment test the new dogs.

 

Lately, he has been more defiant...not sitting when asked (he knows basic commands) and will not come when called to get his leash on. 

 

So...we are so conflicted.  All dogs need training but for CHewie it is imperative.  We just heard about a trainer who is willing to do "Doggie Bootcamp" where he would live with her for 1 week and she trains him and then brings him back and trains us and helps us to integrate it into the home.  I have to say...we are a bit exhausted and it sounds wonderful to have someone help us get him to a more managable point and then we could maintain it.  However, this trainer believes and subscribes to the Alpha theory and pack order which we have been disuaded against.  But...when you observe Chewie..he truly does not seem to respect us and rules the house in many ways.

 

I know there are many opinions out there.  We just don't want to do anything that will make the situation worse.  How do we know which is the right way?   I guess I'm just looking for any insights or experiences any of you have had that would help.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I am not an expert in training - positive reinforcement has worked best for us and Peri is still not perfect (well, who is??..I wouldn't want a perfect dog).
I just wanted to offer my support to you all - you will figure it out. Chewie is a great dog, with a great home, and you will find the right trainer to get you on the best path possible. Keep us posted. We are here for support!

[Kelly-Orchard View Labradoodles]

Another thing...I just thought of, is Chewie getting enough exercise? Not the exciting, ball fetching or mentally stimulating type of exercise, but actual walking on a leash every day? He will respond much better to training or corrections if he's had his excess energy drained at the beginning of each day to put him in a calm state. Plus it will build confidence in his humans.

I've started walking my live wire girl 3 miles each day and I can see a difference in her connection to me and she's much more calm during the day. The jumping has decreased tremendously.

Just another thought...from someone who's working through stuff too. :)

[Laura & Chewie]

Thanks for the additional comments today. We used to always keep a leash on Chewie and it was definitely a lifesaver many times. Perhaps we do need to use it again for different reasons now.

Kelly - the exercise thing is definitely something I have considered. With a bad back, I am limited to the distance I can walk. He is at daycare usually twice a week...great exercise there and he is outdoors running around daily. Also, he is a mini (25#) so not sure his exercise requirement compared to a standard.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Laura, Tara is a mini too (19lbs) and I can see a huge difference in her energy level and behavior when she does not get a walk. She is normally walked 1.5 to 3 miles a day, which probably wouldn't be much for a standard but seems to do the trick for a mini. I have a bad back too but thankfully DH does most of our distance walking. What about one or more of the other family members? Although I rarely distance walk with Tara I don't see that it has had any detrimental effect on our relationship or bonding. I do other types of exercises that are tiring for her too. On the hot days, I throw her ball down the hallway inside the house. She loves hunting for things, so I hide her toys or treats around the house and she goes "hunting for them". I think any kind of training is tiring for them to some degree. I especially use these methods to burn her energy off on the days when she does not get a walk.

[Laura & Chewie]

Chase Chewie is Chewie's very favorite game. One of us just has to say, "I'm gonna get you" and he grabs a toy in his mouth and off he goes. We play indoors and out and outdoors especially, he really gets going. At least it's something. We have had a very hot, humid summer here also...once it cools down, he will get more walks, even if not a real long distance.

[Suzann, Rosey & Bandit]

Chase Rosey is popular in our house too! She has so much energy even if I didn't work it would impossible to expend her. Have you considered getting another dood to chase her? That's what we did and it is actually less work with 2! Just a thought;)

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Okay, I hate to be the naysayer here but I have heard/read/been told that with a dog who has a dominance issue it is not a good idea to play the chase game. This is because the dog will ALWAYS win THAT game! And that in turn reinforces to the dog that he is superior to you and is faster and smarter and you can't GET him! Especially if he is grabbing a toy-he is saying "just TRY and get this from me!!" And he has you all running after him. Can you see how it might seem to the dog? And of course he is having a GREAT time!!!

[Suzann, Rosey & Bandit]

But what if it is another dog instead of a person? Just curious...I just got tired & dizzy chasing her around the table!!

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

LOL! I can just see you now! I was thinking more in terms of Laura's Chewie because he is experiencing behavioral issues right now. When Tara was younger and having similar problems to Chewie's we did not play the chase game or the keep away game with her. Now that we have all settled into our "pack order" we can play those games with her. It wouldn't have to be forever-just until things get "settled" with Chewie. Also, I think that until Chewie gets rebalanced it might not be a good idea to bring in a new canine family member. I think Laura has her hands full right now!!

[Adina P]

I think that IF a dog plays keep away when he takes something he should not have and then does not come/drop it on command...THEN a GAME of keep-away done on purpose might reinforce the naughty behavior. But if/when a dog does not have this issue then a purposeful game using a toy is not at all a problem.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

But don't you think that if the dog does not yet understand the difference or is a dog that already has 'issues,' it would be wise not to play this way? My dogs haven't had these problems, so it doesn't matter for them and never did but, if there was a problem ....

[Adina P]

If the dog has issues with reliability responding to the recall or 'drop it'...THEN I think this game could be a problem. But issues with obedience are an obedience training issue. But I think most 'issues' are issues that are best solved when a dog is trained to obey reliably rather spot fixed.