need help asap - diarherra for a month! could it be the food?

[Melissa]

I have searched in vain, but have not been able to find a discussion directly addressing this issue that I am facing:

 

Buddy is 9 months old and has always been on California Naturals Puppy Lamb & Rice even at the breeder.  His stools have always been firm and easy to pick up.  About a month ago he started getting soft stools, then it was full-blown diarherra.  We took him to the vet, who tested his stool and came up with nothing.  She sent us home with a weeks worth of antibiotics just in case.  (He has also been up to date on his heartworm ,etc.)  During the 7 days, his stool got better but it never got quite as hard as it was.  Then a few days after he was done with his medicine, he got diarherra again!.  We called the vet and this time we got 10 days of the antibiotics and also a 3-day worm medicine (covering more than just heartworms) as a "just in case".  After a couple of days, his poop was back to normal, we finished out his meds and it was great!  Now 3 days have passed and the diarherra is back.  We think it has to be the food, that he is just not tolerating it anymore. 

 

We and the vet are puzzled, however we suspect it is time to change his food to either a different puppy formula or to an adult dog food.  The vet suggests a food with a higher fiber content (11-13% specifically Science Diet Light).  Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated!

 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

With the diarrhea going on, I would take it slow and transition over a week's time. You may not see much improvement until he's on 100% Orijen.
I would also add a tablespoon of plain, unflavored yogurt to his meals when he is on the antibiotics.
Good luck and let us know how he does.

[Nick Pietras]

I actually did not mix the two...since the CN was already upsetting his stomach, it didn't seem like it would matter too much, if it was just going to get upset either way.

So, we gave Gus the 6-Fish cold-turkey, so to speak, along with a "Gentle Digest" probiotic pill, which helps when transitioning foods. He had a solid stool the very next day...that went on for a few days, and then he had a couple days of softer stool, but then it went back to normal.

[Richard Crowe]

When my dogs have very loose stools, we use a chicken and gooey rice mixture but, also some Metamucil. It seems strange that a product meant to increase human stool can reduce diarrhea in dogs. But, placing a spoonful of Metamucil over a dogs wet food (like the rice and chicken mixture) will absorb the liquid in the stomach and intestine. We have used this for both puppies and adult dogs and it seems to work equally as well.

I believe that kibble manufacturers will occasionally change either their formula or change their suppliers. This can wreak havoc as evidenced with the terrible poisenings but, on a lesser scale can upset a dogs digestive system and cause loose stool. We had two litters of five Maltese puppies that went on a bout of intense diarrhea. That was horrible! We were very concerned with the puppies' health and it was a mess having to clean up two poop covered puppy pens and ten poop covered puppies each morning before we even had our cup of coffee. That is when we learned about Metamucil from our vet and also when we realized that the kibble manufacturer had changed their formula.

Holly has been doing very well on Nauture's Variety Raw Beef patties. She also has a strong tendency towards loose stool but, her stool has been firm with the raw diet. The amount of stool is also reduced wbich means to me that she is absorbing a goodly percentage of her diet. It also means that clean up is easier. It is an expensive diet but, we are set on continuing it.

We also have been doing quite well with a sweet potato, carrot and beef topping for our dogs. Sweet potatoes seem to help the dogs' digestive systems work like they should. Come November when pumpkins are readily available, we will be adding cooked pumpkin to the beef and carrot mixture. If pumpkin works as well as sweet potatoes, we will cool up a gigantic batch and freeze in small portions it for feeding during the rest of the year.

I have experimented with adding some canned pineapple and meat tenderizer to the topping mix. Some of our rescue dogs had a poop eating problem and these additives seem to have reduced/eliminated that disgusting practice. They seem to have no qualms about eating the topping with the pineapple and we will probably continue that formula.

[Joy & Buddy]

My doodle, also named Buddy(!), had almost exactly the same problem when he was about 11 months old. He was on Innova Large Breed Puppy at the time (same company as CA Natural, but different ingredients). We tried Wellness LB Puppy and something else, I think, until we finally moved him to adult food. I looked for high quality foods with lower protein levels and calcium/phosphorus levels close to LB puppy food. Finally, we moved him to a grain-free food and that worked. So he was on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream, and now he is on Acana Pacifica, which is a wonderful food, but sometimes hard to find in the US. I would stay away from Science Diet--one of the major ingredients is corn and that is really hard on dogs. Oh, and you probably know this, but feeding pumpkin for a few days really helps with loose stools, and especially through a food change. I get it at our local pet store, about $2 for a can. Oh, and he only chews on antlers, too, no other products. Our Buddy is now 17 months old and doing fine.

[Melissa]

ok, so we we have had Buddy on the Orijen for probably 10 days. His stool hardened up nicely within a day or two of transition. Then within the last 2-3 days it has gotten softer. Still looks somewhat formed, but it is mushy.

My question is, when you switch foods, does the stool get firmer, then softer then firm up again?

Thanks! We ended up NOT giving him the antibiotic because we thought it was the food and we thought we had solved the problem. Just not sure why the stool is getting softer. Yesterday and the day before I bought him some Sweet potato treats (just dehydrated sweet potatos) but the stool started getting softer the day before that.

Thanks for the help!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, this a real mystery. So to try to solve mystery, let's look at it logically.
1. If the diarrhea was caused by a parasite, switching foods would not eliminate the parasite. The stool would probably have remained loose regardless of what food was fed- food is not medicine and cannot cure an infection - so the diarrhea is probably not caused by a parasite or other infection.
2. Buddy's stool firmed up on the Orijen for a few days. The Orijen would probably not help firm up the stool and then cause it to be loose again. So the diarrhea is probably not caused by the food.

There are some dogs who have very sensitive gastrointestinal systems, and we know there are quite a few doodles here with IBS. Some of these dogs have been helped by feeding homecooked diets; others with prepared raw diets. Others with a a grain-free kibble and yogurt or other probiotics added. Some with a combination of feeding methods. It might just be that Buddy has a very sensitive digestive system. Have you tried yogurt, or probiotics? You can also try adding plain canned pumpkin to his food.
Is Buddy ever unsupervised outside? Is there any chance at all that he is getting into something in the yard? Does he go to daycare? Is anyone else giving him anything to eat?
I really am stumped, these are just some thoughts that come to mind. Hopefully some of the others will have some ideas.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This sounds so much like Guinness who was finally diagnosed with IBS after trying antibiotics and several different foods. During that phase we learned that he had to be on a grain free diet. We tried a few different choices, and his diarrhea would improve for a while. Once he got "used to the food" it would come back. It was bizarre, and nobody was able to figure out why this was occurring. Eventually he was diagnosed with the IBS. At that point we moved him to a totally home cooked diet (and I'm not suggesting that's for everyone). His problem was resolved within a few days. Now he is able to tolerate a limited amount of kibble (about 25 - 30% Acana) with his home cooking. I also give him plain fat-free yogurt every day, and if his stools start to get soft a little canned pumpkin. With IBS, if the dog ingests any unusual substance it will bring on the diarrhea. Even if he were to tear off a little piece of a chew toy and swallow it, he'll have an IBS episode. Outside he can't swallow any grass, twigs, acorns, etc. or he'll be sick. He's actually getting used to this now, because he's sick of me putting my hands into his mouth to remove something he's found on the ground. If the dog gets nervous, that will also trigger an episode. The day after grooming I always know there will be a "big time diarrhea episode". I hope you discover that this is being caused by something other than IBS, but if that's what it is, it's very controllable and almost a relief to know what you're dealing with and that your dog can once again be healthy with "normal poops". With Guinness it took a few very stressful months to get to that point. Keep us posted.

[Melissa]

Thanks for the additional posts and info. I spoke with our trainer this evening and she mentioned she had another dog in calss with the same issues and they switched to the grain-free Canidae (she said that she thought she had heard that it did not contain an ingredient that was in most food, not sure). We were going to get some more food tomorrow anyway, so we will try the Canidae. I know switching the food often can cause issues. We will give this a try and perhaps we will then need to do a home cooked meal plan. I hope not, but if that is what we need to do, we will do it.

I will let you know how it turns out...so to speak. :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Melissa, the Canidae is not any better than Orijen...in fact, the ingredients are not as high quality, and it is not going to help. Orijen is the finest quality grain-free food on the market. The people in class did not switch to Canidae from Orijen, of that I am sure. I am sure they switched from a food that contains grains, and that is what may have helped their dog, not the particular brand of food. I urge you stick with the Orijen a while longer.

[Melissa]

OK, We will stick with the Orijen. Maybe we can find some canned pumpkin and put a little in there. Haven't been able to find any, but have not check Trader Joes.

We are giving Buddy the 6-fish Orijen, do you suggest another "flavor"?

Thanks so much! So many foods out there and it is sometimes a bit overwhelming.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's why we're here, lol.
All three Orijen adult formulas are great formulas. The only difference is the main protein source. 6 Fish is of course fish based, and fish is considered to be one of the easiest proteins for dogs to digest, and one of the least likely to provoke an intolerance. The regular Adult formula is fowl based, and the Regional Red formula is meat based, although all the formulas contain some amount of fish. Stick with the Fish formula for a little while. Try adding a spoonful of plain unflavored yogurt. Pumpkin would be great if you can find it.
Also- have you checked the feeding guidelines on the Orijen bag? You should be feeding less of it than you were of the California naturals. Too much food could cause an upset tummy, too.
Hang in there and keep us posted.

[Melissa]

OK, I actually found pumpkin at Wal-mart (guess it is now finally in season). How much should I add to Buddy's food? Do I give it to him twice a day or just once?

Thanks again!