External Factors Interfering with Training Efforts

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Do any of you have persons, places or things that hamper your training efforts with your Doodles?

 

I find that my DH, bless his heart, even though he has the best of intentions, constantly undermines our (my?) training efforts with Tara.

 

A couple of days ago we were in the car stopped at a parking lot at a store. I was planning to stay in the car with Tara and DH was going to go inside. Tara looked at him questioning if she could go with him,. At that point he gave her the 'Stay" command which was not appropriate. She would have had to stay frozen in that spot until he returned to release her. I have been trying (for a 1  1/2 years now) to teach her both "stay" and "wait" but he uses them interchangeably. Thereby negating the usefulness of either. FRUSTRATING!!!!

 

He is retired and spends a lot of time with Tara so short of murder or divorce I am not sure how to resolve this. :(

 

We also have a neighbor who loves Tara and encourages her to jump on him. He knows we don't approve but he says "it's okay if she jumps on Uncle Jimmy".  He recently lost his own dog to cancer and comes to our house to get "loves" from Tara. Due to his loss we have pretty much kept quiet about it.  But we know that it is confusing for her and she doesn't understand that it is "okay" (his opinion) to jump on him but not anyone else.

 

Do any of you have similar issues that you are challenged with in your training efforts and what solutions have you found?

 

 

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

It sounds like in Camilla's case that the kids are just really excited to see Darwin. If their dad does not like dogs then Darwin may be the only dog that they are exposed to.

Perhaps removing Darwin from the situation may be warranted at times too. I really like your description of them all playing soccer together!!! That sounds wonderful!! Maybe there is a way for Camilla's sibs and Darwin to play together without the focus being on Darwin. They could all burn off some energy and have fun together at the same time!!

[Adina P]

What I meant is that if someone wanted to be able to have verbal control over their dog around kids (as they truly are in all their squeaky, loud, boisterous glory)...then at some point they have to work their dog around kids "au naturale." If they want to teach kids to be calm so as to NOT rile up a dog...that's one thing. But if we are talking training to respond to commands and wanting a high level of reliability, then one has to work that dog around difficult distractions and kids (in their loud, squeaky state) are just another distraction. Kids in schools, at parks, and other places where one might encounter them may or may NOT be trained to be calm and predictable. You can't control kids everywhere or train them all to suddenly get mellow upon seeing a dog. SO if the goal is to train one's dog to obey despite crazy kids around...then you can't avoid training around crazy kids.

I guess it is simply my opinion that some things are merely really difficult distractions and other things are TRULY undermining training efforts. I think high energy kids are a really tough distraction OR overwhelming to a dog...not really a 'problem' of undermining training efforts.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Okay, now I understand. It's all part of "proofing" your dog. You need them to behave in a certain way in any situation, and a group of screaming kids is a situation they could definitely encounter. I have been taking the route of bringing my guys by my side in a down/stay to "get them out of the middle of the chaos" when things get crazy with all the kids here. I don't crate them, but I do make them lay by me. If I wanted to take it even farther, I could have them do their down/stay right where the kids were playing. That would be the true test. Am I getting it?

[Adina P]

Yes this is what I mean. Between laying by you and where the kids are playing there are probably various distances you can work on the way to 'where the kids are playing.' Ultimately if you are pretty sure that both the kids and the dogs are SAFE for the proofing exercise, it's worth doing or working up to.

Keep in mind their proximity to you and their proximity to the kid distraction. Each of the following might show differing levels of difficulty:

-- Lying next to you FAR from the kids
-- Lying far from you and FAR from the kids
-- Lying next to you and CLOSE to the kids
-- Lying far from you but CLOSE to the kids

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Camilla, since your sibs are so young, is it possible to get your parents involved in this situation? It sounds like the sibs need to learn how to treat dogs properly and with respect. This is an important life lesson for children and Darwin would be a most excellent dog for them to learn with. This could prevent them from being injured in the future by a dog who is not as mild mannered as Darwin. Also, it could help them have better human/dog communication and relationships when they are adults.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can answer this one. Camilla's dad is not a dog-lover, to put it mildly. But she's working on that, it's just going to take some time.

[Camilla and Darwin]

Exactly. Neither of my parents are involved with Darwin in any way. My dad has never even pet Darwin! Hopefully he will get used to him eventually.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Boy, this is a challenging situation! I saw a Cesar Milan (disclaimer: I am neither pro nor con his training methods) show once with a very similar situation. A standard poodle became very excited whenever the nieces/nephews and other small children came to visit. In this case the poodle was larger than some of the children and was knocking them down when she became over excited. The children were pretty much running around wildly and had no boundries at all. Cesar's solution was to teach the children to be calmer around the dog and it worked very well to calm the dog (at least that is what they showed us).

Random thoughts:

In your case it sounds like it requires some training on both parts! Is it possible for you to bring the children one at a time to your house and teach them about dogs and how to relate to them? The scene you are describing doesn't sound like an ideal training situation.

When they are all together could you direct them to take turns giving Darwin commands? They might like that better once they discover they can actually get a response from him.

From what you are describing it sounds like this situation is putting Darwin in over his level of tolerable distraction and it would be tough to train him under those circumstances. It's kind of akin to the immersion method of desensitizing. I like to start small and work up to something like you are describing. Bringing one or two sibs at a time to your house would also give Darwin a chance to become accustomed to them without being overwhelmed by too many.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

For the most part, our grandkids know that they shouldn't deliberately try to get the Doods "wired up", and they're usually pretty good about it. But when all six of them are here and they're running around and getting "loud" (just kids being kids) I remove the dogs from the middle of it. If it's nice out, and the kids are doing something that really belongs outside anyway, then I have them "take it outside". If not, I just bring the dogs near me (sometimes leashed) and have them lie down (away from the crazyess). When the whole family is here, I'm usually in the kitchen cooking anyway, and the dogs are happy to lay right there with me.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

This is the kind of balance I was trying to describe. In Camilla's situation it sounds like the kids are focusing their "crazyness" at Darwin and that is what is overwhelming him. If they were just "being kids" without involving him perhaps he would be fine.

Camilla, how does Darwin do with children who are "being kids" but not focusing it at him?

[Camilla and Darwin]

Not sure which comment to respond under so I'll just do a general one. I think it is probably a good idea to have him be around 1 or 2 kids at a time while we do training. I have talked to them and told them to talk in a calm voice, etc. It's not even that they touch him or anything, they all just say his name really loud and at the same time. In all honesty, my siblings are kind of... hyper. I had only two of them over to my house once. Every time he would approach to sniff their feet, or get on the couch, etc. They would loudly screech "DARWIN... NO!" Or just screech in general. I don't want this to confuse Darwin, because what he's doing isn't wrong.

It's not that they are scared of him, I think they just view the screaming and overreacting as a way to get attention. Typical kids, right? Also, it might have to do with the fact that they are never around dogs and having one near them, in the house (my house) is very weird/exciting to them. I do try to be stern about them not telling Darwin "no" for something that is okay. But I guess I need more practice at disciplining children... I am glad however that they never hit or tease him. They are very good about that. I think you guys were right in saying that they might not know how to act calmly around dogs, because they never are.... so it's so exciting to them.

And again, he doesn't jump or bark or anything. He just gets excited to the point where he won't listen to any commands given by anyone, and instead runs around sniffing and sneezing and picking up random objects. I think it's obvious I need to do a lot more work with Darwin, helping him build up tolerances to distractions. I also think it would benefit him to do training around kids other than the ones in my family. And I think I need to ask some parenting advice on how to be stern with kids.... :-) Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely keep you all updated, as we are going to visit this coming week.

[Adina P]

I'm not the parent of kids old enough for any 'stern' discipline so these are just random ideas. But what if when they are with you you make a game of it...with a chart and points and things they can earn (rewards) if they do well. Maybe you can subtract points for any screaching and give points for commands and other things they do appropriately...? Then it's black/white and on a chart and they may be more likely to try to EARN something cool by complying then just because of some arbitrary-seeming rules that sister made up. dunno...just an idea.

Or MAYBE you can make a fun game for them trying to distract Darwin but in a controlled way. Make up rules and things they can "DO" (walk around him in a circle waving their arms, jumping jacks while counting to 10, etc) and make them take turns. Easier to control a difficult but planned distraction than things that surprise us.

But honestly I really don't think kids screaching "Darwin...Noooo!" will make him feel unduly reprimanded or 'bad'. I think their general behavior just might be exciting/overwhelming and energy-revving but his primary training relationship is with you and I just don't think it will phase him too much to hear a "no" in a high pitched voice from someone who has not put in the time to train him and doesn't have a close training bond to him.