Need Opinions On A Behavior

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Today I went to see an 18-month-old goldendoodle who has been sitting in a boarding/training facility for more than five weeks. He growled and snapped at some children while he was tethered in his home and at a soccer game, and the owner decided she couldn't take a chance on him biting a child, so she left him with the person who trained him when she first got him and has decided not to bring him home. I don't want to get into that too much, I have a specific question about a behavior I saw when I visited him today.

These trainers mainly work with pitbulls and other dogs with aggression issues, and they seem to fashion themselves after Cesar. They are all young and look very tough, with all kinds of piercings, etc. I know their appearance doesn't have anything to do with their training ability, but...when I have tried to talk to them about the dog's issues and how he would do with another dog in a home, I get things like "Well, my pack keeps him in line", and "any dog will try to establish himself as pack leader", that kind of thing.

Anyway, I was very surprised to see a dog who seemed somewhat fearful around the trainer. They let him out of his cage (it really was a cage) and he came right to me, very friendly. He was a big mush with me, kissing, very excited, very affectionate, a little mouthy but nothing at all resembling aggression. I was sitting on the floor with him when the trainer walked in. The dog moved very close to me. Then the trainer held out a prong collar attached to a leash and called the dog to him. The dog half climbed into my lap and peed on my leg...not much, more like submissive urination. I commented that I thought the dog had peed because he was afraid and the trainer and co-worker said, "Oh no, he does that all the time. He just gets excited."

I have talked to the owner twice and the trainer three times, and no one mentioned submissive peeing before. My question is, do you think this was a response to that trainer and the fact that he was trying to put a collar and leash on him, so the dog thinks he is going to have a training session, or do you believe this is just the way the dog is? My gut says these guys have been using some pretty harsh methods on this dog. That dog clearly did not want to go to this guy. Jack is always thrilled when he sees his leash. I know it's hard to tell from this, but if this is just something the dog does, a prospective owner would need to be told that.

I appreciate any thoughts any of you may have on this.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I am so happy he's going to a great home, he sounds like such an amazing boy!

[F, Calla & Luca]

Faster than a speeding bullet--good work! Both dogs look so good but does JD always dress so formally at home? Nice bandana. Hard to imagine this guy as a "throw away" dog.

[Jacque Reynolds]

Karen, speaking as a reputable breeder myself, I do hope that the breeder has been contacted in this.
We usually have contracts that deal with this type of situation and, if this was one of my babies, he would be back home with me in a heartbeat. Responsible breeders work hard to ensure that their dogs never end up in a rescue situation. (Not that rescues are bad alternatives, we are very grateful that there are big hearted people who step up to help these displaced dogs...but we recognize that we have a responsibility to every puppy that we help to create and we do not take that lightly.)
Also, this breeder has to reevaluate their placement process to avoid this type of tragedy happening again.
I hope that the breeder steps up and at least offers to reimburse you for expenses in turning this boy around.

[Jacque Reynolds]

Oh, Karen, this makes me so sad and furious...When I think of one of my pups ending up in a situation like this I get sick inside. I would have personally driven across the country to pick up my baby and take care of him. I just can't understand not doing that.
You are right...letting the puppy go to a home so early is another irresponsible decision. No wonder the poor boy had trouble adjusting. They learn so much from their littermates and the adult dogs in the family. In California, it is illegal to sell a pup before it is 8 weeks old, unless a vet approves...all of the breeders I know hold their pups to 8 weeks or more, some even hold them until 16 weeks. Even without a law, the breeders should know better. It is so pathetic.
I get angry at this horrible situation and I do not support or stand behind the decision that this breeder has made and I question their program, given the plight of this poor pup. Heartbreaking.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is the best I can do; I've been promised photos in his new home.
Please say a few words to Whoever watches over displaced doodles for Mackey tonight...may he be happy and loved, and truly at home from this day forward.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Homeward Bound. Sorry about the Year Delay big Fella, but you found your way now. Thank Aunt Karen and dream about her often.

[Carol Brand]

I'm late to this discussion because I was out out town. This dog was initially owner relinquished because he acted aggressively towards children. Why is he being placed in another home so soon? It seems to me that he needs to stay in a competent foster home until he can be trained and until his behavior can be adequately evaluated. Do you know why he snapped at those children? Do you know what his triggers are? I may have missed it, but does his new owner have experience working with aggressive or sharp shy dogs?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Almost everything we were told by the owner and the trainer turned out to be falsehoods. This has been a situation unlike any other I've seen. I can't really go into details because of privacy issues, but he is in very experienced hands now and is right where he needs to be. I would have done no less for him.