Doodle jumps and bites to play, I need help.

[Amy & Bernie]

Hi all, I appreciate your patience, I realize both of these are covered a lot separately, but I couldn't find a thread that covered both. I'll try to keep this as short as possible. But it's tough.

Bernie jumps up on me when he wants to play, this includes nipping and biting, his whole mouth around my forearm when he can. It can really hurt, even though I know he's not trying to hurt me.

So far what's NOT working is moving my hands and arms from his reach, once those aren't accessible he grabs at my pants, my legs, my crotch (SCARY), my shirt, anything else.

I've been trying to use the 'kneeing method' with the jumping but he bites my knees! Or he'll try to grab on. I've spent what felt like an eternity kneeing him, knocking him down, just to have him come after me with more fervor.

I've also tried walking away and ignoring, but he'll do everything mentioned above, but from behind. He's nipped me in the butt, and it hurts!!!

When I really can't take it anymore I pin him. Like dogs do. With one hand firmly around his neck so he knows I'm not there to play. I've even growled. But within 30 seconds of when I get off him he's back at it.

Eventually he tires out, or I sit on the couch or at the table I work at and he realizes then that I'm not going to play.

I know leaving the room is another option but I work from home, and I can't afford to hide from my dog several times a day.

Bernie gets a 3 mile walk/jog and a couple play times from me during the day, and a good play session when my husband gets home from work, he's also good at entertaining himself with his toys, so he's far from neglected in the activity aspect.

Even if no one has any new ideas it feels good to talk about it! We love Bernie and he's an awesome dog, beyond well-behaved in so many areas, but he's proven to be insanely adaptable and persistent in regards to a few select behaviors.

He takes nothing personally and he has no conscience!

[Adina P]

Hi Amy! Bernie sounds like my Rosco was as a pup.  He only did it to me and he bit hard and he jumped to reach my belly or back or whatever.  He would get growly and all feisty. It scared me although I'm pretty sure he didn't mean it in a menacing way. 

 

What level of obedience is Bernie at?  Has he had much training with you as trainer?  What I mean by 'level' is simply what is the toughest distraction that Bernie will ignore when you give him a command?  Does he obey around the house?

I am asking this because for me and Rosco what finally worked was to get serious and disciplined about obedience training.  So about the age of 12 months Rosco quit biting.  So, right now...in the middle of his jumping/biting episodes could you tell him "Bernie SIT...stay" and have him obey? If not then I would HIGHLY recommend you get yourself into a results oriented obedience class and get him trained.

 

In the meantime practice "Nothing in Life is Free" around the house (You can Google it), crate him when you need some space and to be free of his naughtiness, and train every single day and get through an Advanced obedience class.  I think that will create a bond of trust and respect where he just won't bother doing this anymore...AND you'll learn some ways to correct the behavior.

[Amy & Bernie]

You're right Adina. He definitely won't "sit, stay" during the middle of one of his feisty, jumpy, biting episodes.

But he'll do it no problem, at the drop of a hat, any other time. He's good around the house otherwise, comes in from outside when called.

We really do need to up our training sessions every day. A class would help. We went to a beginner one when he was 4 months old but he was so beyond what they were teaching it was more like recess for him, so I guess we need to make sure we go over his needs with the instructor before we commit to anything, to make sure we end up in the right group.

[Adina P]

Since he already knows what commands mean and how to respond to them...what you want is a class that helps him respond more reliably...you want reliable solid OBEDIENCE not just more practice doing the same thing because you already can do that on your own.  That is what *I* would look for in a class: training you to improve your technique so Bernie takes you seriously and becomes a cooperative worker and companion.

[Deb, Connor & Simon]

Connor was almost 5 months old when he came to live with us and had only lived with humans for 2 1/2 weeks (he was fostered right before we got him). He was sweet, precious, adorable and did not have one manner. His foster mom had taught him to "sit," but that was it. Puppy Connor was a total wild child. One of his favorite things was jumping and biting/nipping/pinching. I told my husband it looked like he was man-handling me because I had these little fingertip-sized bruises everywhere from Connor.

After two false starts, we found a wonderful trainer. Since jumping up is such a common problem, we had a class on it. The trainer stood in front of the class and showed us how we look to our dog when he is jumping. After all the owners finished laughing because we all saw ourselves in the trainer's histrionics, we got it that we were doing things that actually encouraged the dog to jump because we unknowingly are communcating play.

As Adina says, the very best thing you can do to correct this problem is Obedience Class. It did wonders for Connor and taught me a lot. Connor is now 3 1/2 yrs old, has his CGC and is a certified Therapy Dog. For us positive, clicker training had great results.

[Amy & Bernie]

Thank you Deborah, if anything it's good to know Bernie's not alone in this and we're not total puppy failures! Looks like a class is our best bet. Bernie's just so big, already 60lbs at 7 months and nearly as tall as I am when he's on his back feet, so physically, I'm not surprised I'm not intimidating to him. Gotta get the mental aspect down!

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

Hi Amy!  You have gotten some great input thus far.  I actually had a question for you ~ does Bernie display this behaviour with everyone?  You had only mentioned it with you and did not indicate whether it occurred with your husband or not.  Either way it involves addressing but if it does not consistantly occur with all family members that may influence how you come at it.  Kind of like when a pup seems shy with one member of the family it is suggested they be the one responsible for providing the good stuff, food, treats, praise, etc...  

[Amy & Bernie]

Very interesting to consider Dianne. He's ALWAYS done it with my husband, and a bit with friends that visit on a regular basis, people he feels familiar with I would say. He didn't do it with me much very often until recently - it escalated when we returned from a 10 day trip that he didn't join us on. Maybe the separation had to do with the escalation? I'm the walker, feeder, the one that works from home, so with him the most - but my husband has always been like the big brother, playing, rough housing, etc. We know it isn't fair to expect him to know to treat us different ways, but it's hard for my husband when he's gone all day and comes home to a playful puppy - not to mention the play biting doesn't bother him nearly as much...the first step is that we recognize it's us and not Bernie! We just want to find a method we can both stick to.

[Eva]

Hi Amy,

  It sounds like everyone has great advice especially with the advanced training. Along with that I would encourage another dog for a play date. To me it seems like he wants to rough house and wrestle and my 2 super active doodles do that with each other instead of me. They take out their excess energy on one another instead of you. When we only had 1 doodle, we had to make regular dates to let her romp and be crazy with other dogs. Now since we got the second doodle, it has a built in romping factor. Best of luck, Eva

[Amy & Bernie]

Yes! You're totally right. We were away, with Bernie, right before we left him for the second part of our trip - and he was at the dog park every day, with us and then with his doggie sitters. I'm sure being home with me in the old grind seems quite boring in comparison! Good thinking!

[Adina P]

It certainly might help.  I Married and moved in with my hubby when Rosco was approx 7 months (and thus he had another doodle to play with at that point all the time).  It helped, I think.  But it didn't really stop until we were a certain point in training.  Now one case doesn't prove anything, but I think the training was the deciding factor for us. 

 

After that point where I noticed he no longer had bitten me for a loong time I even tried to test him by getting him all riled up.  And he'd go and find himself a bone to chew on when that happened...but NO teeth on me!

[Amy & Bernie]

Now that's impressive!

[Julie B.]

I haven't had this problem with my pups and I'm not sure whether it's their temprament or the way I play with them when they are pups. My son's always tell me that I don't "rough" my dogs up enough when I play and they're right. My only suggestion would be to really tone down the play times with you. Bernie sounds like he is treating you like a littermate and you don't really want that. I don't ever play tug with my dogs, I don't roll around on the floor with them and I definitely don't use my hands to rough them up. I play fetch, find it, and high five games with them. I take them out to fetch a tennis ball. That is how I play with my pups and maybe that helps to keep them from treating me like another pup??