LOGISTICS!! Lots of questions - would love advice :)

[Jennifer Goaring]

So I have the second doodle bug going BAD... and am trying to figure out if it is good idea for us or not. Sammy is a wonderful, almost 1.5 year old ALD who is medium sized and the most laid back, loveable dog I have ever met (and I grew up with dogs and my parents always had 2 or 3 at a time -- many different breeds).

But I do feel like Sam doesn't get enough play time and would love to have a buddy and for some reason -- I am up for a little more craziness in my household (I am mom to 4 boys -- ages 3 thru 12). The boys adore Sam and are totally on board for another dog... my husband is less so (but he wasn't on board for Sam either and those two are great together). He has not said anything to suggest I can't go forward with it (he isn't really like that anyhow) but does look at me with that "are you sure you want to do that?" look.

I love the idea of a girl dog given I am the only female in this house full of guys! And maybe even a slightly smaller dog (though honestly, I think Sammy is the perfect size -- just don't think we'd want to go any bigger). BUT... I have an opportunity to take on a pup that needs a guardian home -- he is already 1 year old, he is a HE, and of course the breeder is local (hence the guardian home thing) so we would sign a contract that gives them breeding rights and then the pup would be ours to keep forever after. It is a nice situation in that we don't have to pay for the puppy up front and he is older and trained (I think if I wanted a new 8 week old puppy my husband really would put his foot down... but I know better than to go that route). The breeder seems lovely via e-mail (and my hubby spoke to her on the phone).

My worries are... introducing a male pup who is not fixed to Sammy... right away I am assuming the new dog will be alpha as Sammy is a really submissive dog... and I don't know if that is a bad or good thing -- may be fine but I see lots of discussion on here about female-female pairings or how getting 1 of each gender works way better. So I still prefer a female... BUT, maybe I am wrong about that stuff. I also don't think I want to be a guardian for a female as then we have to deal with watching for signs her her going into heat and when she goes to have puppies she will be away for much longer and I think Sam would not like the long absences assuming they grow to be good buddies. So for a female, I would need to consider just finding an older pup that is fixed that needs a home.

Sam still sleeps in his crate at night -- he seems content so we have just never changed that around. I am wondering if the new pup sleeps in a crate and do we just put the crates next to each other? I also crate him when I go run errands and I don't yet trust him all over the house because he still really likes to chew on things... so I guess they both get crated until I figure it out -- I wouldn't allow the new pup more freedom than Sam as that doesn't seem fair -- even if the new pup is better about not eating things he shouldn't.

What about meals? Do they get fed together? Is it pretty easy to train them to leave each others' food alone? Same goes for toys... do they just share them all? I imagine if they are being too crazy in the house, I can just send them outside or put them in time outs in their crates... hmmm. The more I write the less complicated it seems. Just treating the new one like we do Sam.

I am talking to the breeder tomorrow and maybe making a trip this week to see her dogs. Wish me luck!

Jen

[Adina P]

That sounds good then :)

[Tracy L Boring]

Jen,

I looked at pictures of Sammy and Mojo.  They are both so cute.  Oh goodness.  Now I want a black one.  

I take both of our dogs to training together.  My son, and I go on Monday nights and take a obedience class, and an agility class.  Both dogs are in the same class.  I train one, and my son trains the other.  On Tuesday nights, my son does 4H with the 2 year old ALD dog.  I had the trainer come over and work with my son several times to make sure that they were a good fit, and what she thought about him training the dog. It has worked out very nice.  

We both work one on one with both dogs at home. We work a little each day with both. It has taken longer to train our younger ALD than it did the 2 year old ALD.  The younger ALD is very goofy.  His mission seems to be to make everyone laugh.  

The younger ALD passed his Canine Good Citizen test at nine months, and my son went through the test with the older ALD, when he was eight months.  The two year ALD, just took and passed the Therapy Dog International test.    

[Jennifer Goaring]

Thanks for checking out my pictures.  That is so great that your son has gotten so involved and your dogs are doing so well with training.  That is my goal eventually as well.  I feel like we really slacked off --- Sammy got his puppy Good Citizen medal and then we hit a couple more classes at the "adult" level (when he was only about 7 months old) because the trainer said he was ready but then we didn't keep it up.  Our schedules were busy in the fall with soccer for the boys, then it has just been bad weather and holidays and laziness -- but I think the new dood is a good excuse to get started again.

 

The new guy is apparently only 25 pounds... I wrote 35.  So he really is quite a bit smaller -- Sam was 25 pounds at 4.5 months!

 

I think the new guy is a bit more energetic than Sam too from what the website says -- another reason to meet in person and see what we think.  I don't mind a bit of energy -- but don't want a dog that is totally hyper.

[Tracy L Boring]

Our 2 year old has a lot of energy, so my son trys to keep him busy. My son has arthritis, and anxiety issues, and Rex (our 2 year old ALD) has helped so much. How exciting you get to meet him this weekend. Let me know how it goes.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I can see why you are smitten with the puppy. He is darling.....  If you plan to train both dogs at the same time you need two handlers - like dh and you or attend two separate classes.   Your twins can help but IMO they are not mature enough to actually do the training and understand the what and why. Just like you shouldn't expect a child to be responsible for all aspects of dog care, you shouldn't expect a child to be responsible for obedience training. Participate, have obligations, but not the one in charge.

[Jeanne, Tura and Dolly]

My 2 female doods sleep and eat in side by side crates.  Also, when I go out.  Takes all the worries away and they can see each other.  I do put a blanket over the top at night.  I think we all worry about who will be dominant and it breaks our heart a little when the new one is the alpha, which is what happened to us.  But it is their issue so you have to let it go.  As for the "cons", it is hard to walk 2 at a time by yourself.  It is more problematic taking them places. I used to take the one with me to visit friends, it is a little much to take 2.  (I love them but not everyone does).  You do have to worry about the fact that they are not fixed.  I for example can't go to dog parks, something my other female loved to do. Pros, they play together all the time with is great. Also, you should plan on training them both a lot.  Good luck!

[Jennifer Goaring]

Thanks for this reply.  I so far haven't done dog parks... just worried about what I will find there (so far, I have yet to see a doodle only dog park -- hee hee!)  And I honestly don't take Sam with me on errands much because there are just so many places I can't take him and I wouldn't want to leave him in the car.  So he goes to the groomers and to classes (when we were going more) and once or twice to my parents' house -- but they have a very protective standard poodle that doesn't like doggy visitors -- so it doesn't work well to visit them.

 

So the car thing won't be a big change.  Glad to hear crating isn't going to be a bit deal.  I feel bad doing it but Sam really does seem to like his crate.  I just need to make sure this new dog is used to crates.  I would think he is given he is a stud dog living with a breeder who has other dogs -- I would think she has to have some way to keep him separated when needed.

 

I am so hoping to meet this dog this week!  Wish me luck!  :)

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I currently have all male dogs and have had for the last 12 years!  It was not my choice, but these are the dogs we ended up with.  When we added Ned as a puppy, our very submissive Springer Spaniel went into a depression that lasted for a year.  He did finally get over it and we thought things were fine.  Last March we added our adult male rescue to our pack and again, Gordie had problems.  It took about two months for them to settle their issues for bottom guy.  It took our alpha lab mix one day to put Clancy in his place and it took Ned about two days to put him in his place.  Our lab mix passed away in September and it has changed the dynamics of our pack.  Ned (our smallest doodle) is alpha, and Clancy and Gordie go back and forth as second and third. They all get along and the two doodles play a lot together.  Our Springer is not that playful.

When we got Clancy he lifted his leg in our house - this is a no no for me and if I could have found a new home for him right then, I would have!  Clancy only did it about 4 times and we are fine now with that.  The male leg lifting/marking would be a deal breaker for me.

I have heard that breeding dogs are often not well house broken, socialized or behavior trained.  Do I know this to be true - no.  But since I have heard it, I just wanted to share that rumor so that you could follow up and be prepared for whatever.

For what it is worth, I would NOT be a guardian home or even get a puppy without meeting the breeder and seeing their set-up unless is it someone that I have had a long term cyber relationship

like some of the breeders I have met on doodlekisses.

[Jennifer Goaring]

I am expecting some work to do in the training department -- the breeder said he needs to go to classes... at a year old, that did surprise me a bit... but thinking about it, how would she have time to work with the dogs individually if she has so many.  So it does make sense.  He is apparently house broken and crate trained -- but I will treat him like a new pup in that he won't earn much freedom until he proves he knows what he is doing around here.  He is apparently very food motivated -- so that should help as Sammy wasn't really into treats so some of our early training was a bit tricky -- he is more into treats now that he is older though... funny dog.

 

I don't think of Sammy as a "very submissive" dog when it come to other dogs (he is with adult humans that are strangers though) so I hope a new dog will be fun for him, not send him into a depression.  Honestly, if he seems really upset or isn't dealing well with it all and it doesn't look like we can fix it, we will taken him back to the breeder as she as already said we could trial it before we decide for sure.

 

So we are meeting the breeder at her home, where she has all her pups and dogs, this week (on Thursday).  Then, if the meeting goes well, I would return next week to pick him up.  If I get a bad vibe at all, I will walk away from the situation as I get that being a guardian means being tied to this breeder for the next few years.  Her husband is on this website apparently... I haven't looked him up though.  I should try, but not sure what user name he would take or how to search for someone on here... not that reading posts and such tells the whole story, but it would be more background maybe.

 

There is another member on here that is a guardian for one of this breeders' dogs and I sent her a message hoping she could tell me more about how it is going for her.  But it doesn't look like she is real active on this site these days, so we will see.

 

How did you deal with the marking thing?  I do worry about that.  I have no experience with it at all.

 

Thanks for the reply!

Jen

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Not all males mark, so perhaps this guy will be one of those.

[Jeanne, Tura and Dolly]

I read the contract and didn't see any red flags.  I think you have to remember it is a business and so many of the dogs in the breeders house have not been trained.  It will be really good for this pup to have a home and get trained by you and have a good bond with you.  You will probably want to feed 2x a day and not free feed, as this will establish you as alpha and is better for the dog anyway.  Dogs adjust to new situations differently.  Sammy may take awhile to adjust as well as the new dog.  My 1st dog started peeing and pooping in the house after I brought the Guardian dog home.  That went on for a couple of months. The Guardian dog seemed to adjust within a day but maybe  because she is alpha.  But now all is well.  I'll be looking forward to hearing how it all goes on Thursday.

[Jennifer Goaring]

I agree about not free feeding... I was never a fan of that and I liked that when Sammy was young we had him sit and wait to get fed and then he got in the habit -- we worked on sitting at the door and waiting, not running to the door when people came (we also used a gate so there was no temptation).  I have a great puppy training book with a lot of the alpha stuff in it.  I also just sent off a couple of e-mails to our trainer to see what she thinks would work best for a 1 year old pup with no training who may have limited social skills as well (yes he has been around lots of puppies and dogs... but what about different kinds of people and places?  I doubt he has been out and about much at all...)

 

So your 2nd dog, the guardian one, became alpha right away?  How does that look or play out?  Sammy is a somewhat submissive dog (when it comes to people at least).  He played right along with the rest of them in puppy class and loves to say hello to people and dogs when we are walking... though I don't actually let him visit with other dogs unless I know them.  I definitely can seem him becoming 2nd fiddle to the new dog though who I have heard is pretty rambunctious... he apparently has escaped from the breeder's yard a few times -- but doesn't actually run off -- just shows back up on the front porch and he can get out of certain types of crates.  I am SO CURIOUS about meeting him tomorrow!

 

I really hope he doesn't mark... yikes.  I also hope Sammy doesn't have any accidents suddenly... I so can't imagine that happening, but I guess it could.

 

My plan is to buy a second smaller crate (as this dog is only 25 pounds and Sam's crate is the big 42" wire crate) but then put them next to each other.  I will liberally use time outs as needed if we have crazy wild dogs in the house and the new guy will get crated when I can't watch him until I am sure he is really house trained.

 

One thought I had though was -- do you guys ever put crates side by side and leave the doors open so the dogs can go into each other's crates?  I know it sounds weird... I just figured if they get to be good buddies eventually but I still don't want them to have the run of the house when I run errands, couldn't I do that so they could nap together or hang out?  Maybe that is too weird and maybe side by side is good enough.  I think eventually I could gate off our dining room (which has no furniture in it except a bookcase) and put down doggie beds and move the crates in there and let them stay in there together when I am gone... it is a nice open room with windows and carpet and would be easy to gate.  I would just have to be sure they really were housetrained.

 

I don't have a doggie door nor do we have a dog house or shelter outside, and I live in the NW where it rains a lot so I really don't have the option to leave them outside at all.  In the spring and not too hot summer days -- I think that would be a nice option, but we probably need to build a little shelter of some sort.  AND Sam is a digger -- so that is always a problem too.  Maybe he won't dig is he has a buddy to play with and therefore isn't bored.  I used to leave him out on nice days for a couple of hours while I was napping (I work nights) but then would wake up to find he had dug up flowers or something... SIGH.

 

Enough rambling... I am totally off topic now.  Sorry!