Dog Anxiety Question

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Those of you who are giving your dog medication for anxiety or depression - either on-going or as needed, how have you determined what is best?  I don't quite get when it is appropriate to use one or the other or any at all.

Gordie, our seven year old Springer is mellow and laid back when he is with his people. He has no aggression, fear, socialization issues with dogs or people.  Like most Springers, Gordie was an extremely active puppy who destroyed couches, ate molding off walls, chewed shoes......  However he only did this when we were gone.  He had our older dog for a companion, but he needed his people. We had a Springer before who was not this destructive but was this active as a pup (she calmed down at two though). Gordie was not crateable, and got out of every area we tried to confine him to.  We consulted a trainer (a bad one apparently) who told us to leave him outside when we were gone - that was it....  We didn't take his advice and just put up with the destruction until he 'outgrew' it. We did not recognize this as anxiety at the time.

When we got Ned, Gordie went into a depression.  Wouldn't eat, isolated himself, quit making eye contact.... We were totally shocked because we have animals in the family who have stayed with us, even lived with us for periods of time.  Finally Gordie seemed to accept the new addition and life with our three dogs was fine.  Then we added Clancy.  We introduced them first and Gordie seemed fine and even pleased.  Gordie and Clancy then had 'p******' contests for bottom position in the pack which lasted a couple of months.

Gordie has never 'matured' or settled down.  He can go from sleeping to extremely excitable in seconds - someone comes to the door for example, and Gordie jumps, dances, races around and whines for a while.  This even happens if someone goes out to get the mail. He travels well but can get very excited and pants on shorter car rides as opposed to the RV.

We can leave him home with the doodles, but not home alone, and not at all in the RV with the doodles. Our son can take him to his college apartment,  walk him around the campus and into his classes - no problems.  Our daughter can take him overnight with her lab and leave them in her home while she is gone  - no problems.

Gordie is not afraid of new experiences just of being away from people. He improved for a long time but has gotten increasingly more anxious - especially since our older dog died in September.  He barks, howls, slobbers, cries.  It breaks your heart.  Our current trainer has suggested a citronella collar - not to help with the anxiety but at least to curb the cycle of barking and howling and to be able to take him camping so that we could leave him in the RV to do things. We have tried the calming herb collar (just makes my allergies react).

Those of you who have had experience with dog anxiety, do you have ideas or suggestions for us? Summer is coming and I want to include Gordie.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm not sure, but I think that some medications for depression have to be given on a daily basis, and can't just be given on an "as needed" basis...i.e., you can't just give it on days when you're leaving the dogs alone in the RV, Gordie would have to have it every day on an ongoing basis. That's how the human SSRI drugs are taken, at least.

They used to have antianxiety drugs for dogs, similar to Valium for people, that you could give on an "as needed" basis. My schnoodle was terrified of fireworks and my vet used to give me just two days' worth to get her through the 4th of July stuff. But that was back in the 70s and 80s, and I've noticed since then that they don't seem to offer that kind of thing anymore. It's more like the Prozac kind of drugs that they have to take all the time. I think if it brings him some relief and makes life more pleasant for all of you, it's worth considering.

 

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Nancy, I know with our rescue dog, who had terrible separation anxiety and a fear of thunderstorms, there was a drug that could be given (Acepromazine, I think) four hours before a triggering event to help. However, it knocked our dog out and she seemed drunk for quite some time after and I always felt bad when I had to use it. The smaller dose did nothing, and the larger dose knocked her out, basically.

She also was on a daily dose of another drug for anxiety. I tried the over the counter calming stuff and the plug in thing and had no luck with either. There is some kind of Thundershirt that is supposed to ease anxiety, but I never tried that to see if it helped. I really feel for you and Gordie. It is heartbreaking to see them so frightened and feel so helpless. Good luck!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I know of quite a few people who've had success with the Thundershirt. It might be worth a try.

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

Our previous dog had problems with thurderstorms.  I used to give her Bach's Rescue Remedy it's an herbal supplement.  It worked very well and lasted 4 hours or so.  It just relaxed her and she didn't act like she had been drugged.  I tried it myself once, to me it was like taking a valium.   It was recommend by our old vet not knowing any better I trusted him.  Maybe Karen can tell you if the herbs are safe here are the ingredients.  Impatiens, Star of Bethlehem, Cherry Plum, Rock Rose, Clematis.  There is a antidepressant called Clomicalm for dogs, but needs to be given daily.  I'm not sure what the long term affects would be.  Hopefully you can find something to help Gordie.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I've seen mention of Rescue Remedy in various dog forums for years. It looks pretty safe to me, but I don't know if it would be very effective. I haven't heard of many people having great success with it. If it's like Valium,  maybe I should try it myself, lol.

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

Karen, it gave me just a mellow feeling, it's hard to beat valium, lol.

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

I was recently told that the rescue remedy would be good for Myla also, they said there is a people one and a dog one both for anxiety but I'm too afraid to try without more research. 4 hour would do wonders!!

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

There is a cross-post in this group about the types and ingredients in Rescue Remedy.  Jennifer, if you are going to try Rescue Remedy, make sure you read that discussion and  watch for those ingredients that are dangerous to dogs.

I found both types in Health and Natural Drugs Stores in my area.  Look there.

It certainly did NOT last 4 HOURS!    But it is worth a try or a starting point for many situations.  

Here is the IMPORTANT LINK TO THE DANGERS OF RESCUE REMEDY

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/mentalhealth/forum/topics/reminde...

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

Thanks so much Joanne, I was also told they were the same to use for people and dogs then I wondered if they are the same then why would they be marketed as different products. Thanks for sharing the link!

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Hi Nancy,

We were prescribed Clomipramine, 50 mg twice a day.  This is not one of those drugs you can give on a need basis.  It is a daily, long-term medication for anxiety.   There are many newer drugs out there, however this was what my vet wanted us to try.  It certainly is not a miracle drug--meaning the behaviors do not STOP.   Along with training it has greatly enhanced her quality of life and that is what matters.

This medication has been used for dogs who can hurt themselves being crated and separation anxiety.   There is a lot a literature on the internet since it has been widely used for these behaviors since the 1960s.

It is relatively low -cost ( about .60 cents per day ).   Some of the other medications such as Prozac have been used with BETTER success than the one we are using.

Both  Clomipramine and Prozac do not sedate the dog!  As a matter of fact, Starlit did not MOVE for the first 6 months we had her.  Now, with less stress, she is able to play, look out the window and is much more active ( if you can call this mellow girl active). It is better than living under a table with her head buried. 

 

As far as rescue remedy, in situations like these, it does not even touch the surface.  It is a joke.  Don't waste your money.  There are some discussions in this group using  natural remedies--Pheromone Therapy which you may also want to read.  There are some links to 'where to buy ' there also. 

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

opps  I missed the statement you tried the pheromone.

Do some more reading on the above meds I mentioned.  There are several on this site ( no names mentioned ) who have used this drug for the exact circumstances you are having, with great success.

I wish you all a very enjoyable and peaceful summer   :)

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Thank you everyone.  At least I have a place to start.  It is hard to think of giving Gordie meds all of the time because I don't see that he is anxious always, but I guess it is always there....  I think I might check out the thundershirt, but I thought it was less for separation anxiety than situational - noise, storms, stranger fear.