Dog Anxiety Question

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Those of you who are giving your dog medication for anxiety or depression - either on-going or as needed, how have you determined what is best?  I don't quite get when it is appropriate to use one or the other or any at all.

Gordie, our seven year old Springer is mellow and laid back when he is with his people. He has no aggression, fear, socialization issues with dogs or people.  Like most Springers, Gordie was an extremely active puppy who destroyed couches, ate molding off walls, chewed shoes......  However he only did this when we were gone.  He had our older dog for a companion, but he needed his people. We had a Springer before who was not this destructive but was this active as a pup (she calmed down at two though). Gordie was not crateable, and got out of every area we tried to confine him to.  We consulted a trainer (a bad one apparently) who told us to leave him outside when we were gone - that was it....  We didn't take his advice and just put up with the destruction until he 'outgrew' it. We did not recognize this as anxiety at the time.

When we got Ned, Gordie went into a depression.  Wouldn't eat, isolated himself, quit making eye contact.... We were totally shocked because we have animals in the family who have stayed with us, even lived with us for periods of time.  Finally Gordie seemed to accept the new addition and life with our three dogs was fine.  Then we added Clancy.  We introduced them first and Gordie seemed fine and even pleased.  Gordie and Clancy then had 'p******' contests for bottom position in the pack which lasted a couple of months.

Gordie has never 'matured' or settled down.  He can go from sleeping to extremely excitable in seconds - someone comes to the door for example, and Gordie jumps, dances, races around and whines for a while.  This even happens if someone goes out to get the mail. He travels well but can get very excited and pants on shorter car rides as opposed to the RV.

We can leave him home with the doodles, but not home alone, and not at all in the RV with the doodles. Our son can take him to his college apartment,  walk him around the campus and into his classes - no problems.  Our daughter can take him overnight with her lab and leave them in her home while she is gone  - no problems.

Gordie is not afraid of new experiences just of being away from people. He improved for a long time but has gotten increasingly more anxious - especially since our older dog died in September.  He barks, howls, slobbers, cries.  It breaks your heart.  Our current trainer has suggested a citronella collar - not to help with the anxiety but at least to curb the cycle of barking and howling and to be able to take him camping so that we could leave him in the RV to do things. We have tried the calming herb collar (just makes my allergies react).

Those of you who have had experience with dog anxiety, do you have ideas or suggestions for us? Summer is coming and I want to include Gordie.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Wrapping may help him but I agree, the Thundershirt won't help Gordie in this case. Occasionally we used a snug harness. It helps, but it not the answer.  It won't change the behaviors it only helps( maybe) calm the fears. 

I sympathize with you about not wanting to give Gordie medication.  My DH was very against the idea, however once he saw her improve and our lives improve too, he is the first person to make sure she has it on time, everyday. He is the first person to say, she needed this and it was the best course of action and what a wonderful decision we made to improve her quality of life.  My regrets--we didn't start it sooner. 

It can't hurt to try this for the summer months. If you could ask Gordie, what would he say?  I know what Starlit has said to me with her calming eyes.

If you are thinking about it, you need to start now.  We saw the improvement gradually over a two month period.

It can't hurt.  The side effects are minimal, if any.  We  have NONE of the ones mentioned.  It won't take him backwards but if it does take him forward how wonderful can that be for him.... and your lives too. 

[Christine & Camus]

Hi Nancy,

 

I'm sorry to hear that the Pheramone collar did not work for Gordie.  The only other suggestion I have would be doggie Prozac, which I was told has recently been accepted as an appropriate medication for dogs.  I understand your not wanting to medicate him on a daily basis, however it may help you get through the summer and he may not need it long-term.  If it helps and his behavior improves then you can try weaning him off the medication to see if the changes are permanent. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Christine - he actually has the collar on right now but I don't see any difference at all when he wears it.  He is either laying down calm or panting anxious.  No in-between for Gordie.  I think May 1st when we take Ned for his shots  we will discuss this with the vet. He is really old fashioned - I hope we get him and not the part time ones - they just try to sell me food.

[Christine & Camus]

Nancy,  I'll look for your update... - As to the part time vets, I let everyone at my vet's office know that I am a bit of a "pickle" and prefer to see only one vet! Emergencies being the only exception.  They laughed, but said they understood...

[F, Calla & Luca]

Although Gordie does not appear anxious at all times I would, as I mentioned to you before, recommend an antidepressant for Gordie, if he were a person : ) The antidepressants are really misnamed since they are the drugs of choice for preventing anxiety and have other uses as well. They must be given every day. I suspect once he is established on such a medication you won't want to stop it. The antanxiety drugs, tranquilizers like Valium, are short lived, sedating and habituating , making them useful only for certain situations and not appropriate, IMO, for Gordie. Of course, given his history of depression, the medication could help prevent that too. The rescue remedy is hokum, again, IMO.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Thanks, F.  the continuing medication is really what we are leaning toward.  We are really, really concentrating on  observing Gordie in all  situations so that we can bring specifics to the table. For example we now take note of how very, very different his dog park and car behaviors, greetings, depressions etc. are from the doodles, which we more or less accepted before as Gordie or Springerness. He no longer minds like he used to off leash- another change.  I do think losing our alpha and Gordie's caretaker, last fall set a steeper decline in motion, but it has always been there - we were just oblivious and too accepting.

Our vet is a single vet practice but he takes a normal people's amount of time off nowadays - perhaps getting ready to retire? - first he stopped working on Saturdays (hence our calling all the 'subs' Saturday vets) but now often having someone else in during the week. We will have to call first so we get him in and not someone else because I value his down-to-earth opinions.

[Lauria Orr]

I am just now seeing this conversation, and I wanted to throw out my Vet's take on our last dog, Lucy. She had anxiety and I always wondered if it was because I got her at 5 weeks old, which I believe is too early to take a dog from her Mother. The gal at work whose dogs had had this litter was anxious to get rid of the puppies. Lucy was a Beagle. We used acepromazine for fire works and that knocked her out.  She developed a seizure disorder and that is contraindicated, so we switched to Valium for fireworks.  That worked well.  She had anxiety over a number of things, and the Vet suggested Zoloft.  We tried that and it really did the trick.  That fight or flight response can really be hard on the body eventually.  It is a stressor to the system.  The Zoloft was a daily medication and although other measures are a first choice,etc...it really is a viable option in many cases. Lucy still got nervous, but not nearly to the extreme.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Update on Gordie - our vet doesn't do anything regarding meds for anxiety so he gave us a business card for a place that is about 50 miles away.  I haven't followed through yet for two reasons 1) I can't believe there isn't someone/somewhere closer with more availability to consult; 2) It is the end of the school year and frankly, I am soooo busy; 3) I am concerned if I travel to the pricey Orange county place that their fees will be more than my soon-to-be retired self can pay.  So, here I sit, having done nothing and feeling guilty.

[Lauria Orr]

Oh, goodness, there has got to be someone closer!  That is crazy!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

When summer comes I am going to investigate more fully what is available in our town.  Riverside is a large city and I just cannot believe there is not a behaviorist vet around here.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Thank you for your message Lauria, I am going to check her out!

[Kyoko]

I learned that there are such thing as "Holistic Vet" who can prescribe herbal meds. Some one told me the stuff called "Shen Calmer" is a natural calming meds.... I have not try yet, so I don;t know if it works or not.....