Sick Doodle - tests are negative, help!

Hi.

It's my first time on the forum, and I am asking for help.

Our female goldendoodle is 1 1/2 years old. We have given her a wide variety of kibble, meats, veggies and fruits since we got her as a puppy. She has thrived. But now, she is having intestinal distress. Started the middle of September - loose stools constantly (like pudding, as another poster described it). Then I noticed bright red blood at the "end" of her production. Vet put her on Flagyl and an antibiotic, we cooked hamburger and brown rice for days, no other foods allowed. Her stools firmed up, no blood. Approx 5 days after the course of meds ended, loose stools with blood again. Went to the vet again yesterday. Vet has done stool samples both visits, with nothing showing up at all. She has a good appetite, good energy, no fever, no vomiting, and doesn't act sick. I should say that we had not introduced anything radical into her diet before this all started.

The vet is saying that he thinks it's just a case of colonitis, ie. irritated colon wall, and could be caused by the kibble we've been feeding her, even though she's had this same kibble for about 7 months now. He also says ours isn't the first goldendoodle he's seen with similar digestive issues.

Does anyone have similar problems with their doodle? This vet has been around a long time and has diagnosed tough problems for friends' dogs, and I do trust him. But I'm really worried about our girl.

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Terry on October 16, 2008 at 2:43pm

It is chicken/turkey protein. When the vet told us to go to a bland diet, I cooked 92% lean burger meat and mixed with brown rice - she loved it and she didn't have problems. I have been sharing my yogurt with her on and off for over 6 months now, but just realized while typing this that I haven't given her much this past month b/c I haven't been eating as much. The vet did recommend she get yogurt while on the meds. Thanks for your reply, it does help.

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Permalink Reply by Maryann,Roo and Tigger on October 16, 2008 at 11:43am

We had a Siberian Husky named Storm with colitis off and on all of her life. She lived happily for 15and 1/2 years. Our vet treated her as yours is treating your dog. Colitis is an off and on thing. It can flare up and be a frequent issue for months and disappear altogether for years. Siberian Huskies are a bit prone to colitis also. At one point we switched to Solid Gold dog kibble and added the powdered supplement for IBS or irritabble bowel syndrome. This supplement requires only a very small amount (1/4 teaspoon) sprinkled on the kibble. It is available, online only, around me (SoCal). Google Solid Gold and look for the supplement in the purple plastic jar. This absolutely helped our Storm immensely. Vet said it was fine to give her. She still had occasional bout of colitis but very infrequently. I will google Solid Gold and find the name of the product since I can't remember it for the life of me. In the meantime it is possible to boil the hamburger (raw, 93% fat free) and the rice together in a very large pot and store in the freezer in portion size baggies. Hope this helps you feel better if nothing else! Okay - went on the Solid gold site we alternated between Hundeflaken (lamb) and Wolf King (bison) based foods not every other bag but more like every three or four bags ( we were feeding two dogs from the bags) being careful to change back and forth slowly. The supplement now just has a purplish label and is called D-zyme. hope this helps

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Terry on October 16, 2008 at 2:44pm

thanks Maryann, I will check the website and read up on this. So it appears some breeds are more prone to colitis than others? The vet told me that he thought she was about the right age ( 1 1/2 years old) for it to develop.

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Permalink Reply by Maryann,Roo and Tigger on October 16, 2008 at 5:30pm

My vet has a chart in his office that shows which breeds have a higher incidence of numerous things: epilepsy, hip dysplasia, eye problems, IBS, and so on. Huskies are absolutely notorious for iffy tummies, because they require very low amounts of food and protein for their size and enrgy level. I only had one out of five, and that was Storm, who really had any trouble. She, too, was a picky eater. Until she got quite old, I just let her eat her kibble and supplement if she wanted and picked it up and threw it away when she did not. She seemed to be the best judge of what kept her tummy happy. Every time I tried to add to her food to get her to eat it, off we would go again with tummy troubles. Sometimes she would go two days without anything but water. I would have a little mini celebration (quietly) when she ate again. It seemed to worry me a great deal more than it did her. Of course she loved hamburger and rice so maybe she was just smart and holding out for that.

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Permalink Reply by Jacquie Yorke (DRC) on October 16, 2008 at 12:16pm

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Terry on October 16, 2008 at 2:46pm

No, we were feeding her Innova from Natura - adult turkey/chicken combo. I had noticed that months ago when she ate my daughter's fried egg yolk that she had a loose stool, so I had decided that she couldn't handle too much protein.

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Permalink Reply by 29wtw5rzrcy8s on October 16, 2008 at 12:34pm

Hi Barbara! I sure hope she gets better soon. It is not the first time I hear about this. My oldest, Mateo, did go through a stage where he had lose stools and he seemed just fine energy wise.
What really worked for me was the Canine I/D Food. I always have a bag handy for when his tummy gets upset. I feed them Nature's Variety Dry Kibble and even though I tested other kibble, I went back to it and they are both doing great!
Is she getting into something outside? Is she eating grass for example? How about treats? I only give them treats once every other day and I buy the Dogswell ones...and that's it. I try to limit what they are eating and it is finally paying off.
Good luck!
Marina

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Terry on October 16, 2008 at 2:53pm

Marina,
The Canine I/D food (from Prescription Diet) is what the vet recommended yesterday. However, she turned her nose up at it last night and wouldn't eat. My doodle is a very picky eater!! I did purchase some in cans and we tried to dress it up for her, but she managed to lick all the wet food off the kibble and left the rest! I put out some dry today in case she got hungry and she's nibbled a bit at it, but not enough to keep her going for long.

We wondered about the outside too. She mostly stays in the house but has been nuts wanting to go outside to chase the squirrels out of our backyard. More than once, I've caught her with a green acorn from a live oak tree. Mostly, she just throws them in the air and plays with them but I'm sure she's chewed on at least one. She has also chewed up small sticks but usually throws them up, turning one stick into many toothpicks. We are watching her like a hawk now everytime she goes outside and have patroled the entire backyard. When the first attack hit her and we went to the vet, we had all decided it was because she was drinking out of our bird bath. Even though I changed the water every day to avoid mosquitoes, we knew all it takes is one dirty bird. But since then, I've kept the birdbath empty. We had pretty much quit giving her treats before this all happened.
thanks so much for the ideas and reply,
Barbara

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Permalink Reply by Rachel Weaver on October 16, 2008 at 3:00pm

My puppy, Buddy, eats everything outside as well and has soft stools since we have had him at 8 weeks. He is 6 months old now. I had all kinds of test ran. Nothing showed up wrong thank god. I swtiched him to blue puppy food and he stools are "normal". Blue makes treats too. He seems to like the food.

Good luck!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Noble Vestal Labradoodles on October 16, 2008 at 2:16pm

I would have a blood sample sent to the Anatech labs to see if she has something else going on. The number one cause of diarrhea in dogs is clostridial bacteria. You can not do a simple stool check to check for this you have to do a blood sample. To treat clostridial your dog should be on a high dose of flagle and amoxicillin for 10 day not 5 not 7 but for 10 days, then rest for 10 days and repeat again.

Another thought is that the food you are feeding is causing the tummy issue, logically if you take him off the food and feed rice and chicken or hamburger and it stops but then returns when you add the food back it adds up to the FOOD. It is possible that the food company changed the ingredients, they do it all the time! The food could be to rich for her too. Look at the protein, high protein diets can cause loose stools. Only dogs that are working, nursing pups or puppies need to be on the high protein diets. Your dog should now be on adult food.

One final thought, check for pancreatitis, foods high in fat and protein can cause pancreatitis!

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Terry on October 16, 2008 at 3:03pm

This makes sense. Both times while she was on the antibiotic/anti-diarreahal meds, she was fine. The meds were a 7-day course. It took about 5 days after the meds ended before the puddin' stools with blood reappeared. What is clostridial bacteria and how can she get it? Why do you suggest the "Anatech labs"? Are not all doggie labs created equal?

At first we thought the culprit was her drinking from our bird bath, the second time we wondered if she were eating the live oak acorns in our backyard......now we are just puzzled and concerned.

We did take her off her regular kibble both times, gave her nothing but 95% lean burger meat with brown rice, and she did well. Unfortunately, both times when we started to ease her back on to her kibble was about the same time that her meds had finished up, so we don't know for sure if it is the kibble back in her diet or the fact that the meds wore off.

This time, we are going to keep her on the Canine I/D diet for many days past the end of her meds so that we can see how she fares after the meds have left her system. Unfortunately, she doesn't like the dry I/D kibble so I'm hoping she gets enough nutrition while this is progressing.

I've checked the food bag. We were feeding her Natura's Innova, chicken/turkey combo. The protein content isn't any greater than the I/D that the vet gave us yesterday. The fat is a bit higher, and I have noticed that whenever she gets too much protein (like when she stole my daughter's fried egg yolk right off her plate), she gets a loose stool. But these are so bad she had accidents in the house, and she's been house-trained with no accidents for over a year. That makes me believe it's more than just a protein issue. But I'm guessing here.

thanks for your help. i will talk to the vet about the blood test.

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Permalink Reply by Michele B on October 17, 2008 at 5:03am

I had a standard poodle for 15 years. We battled ulcerative colitis since she was 2. Sometimes stress and anxiety could trigger it to act up. She also could not digest beef in any form. Does your dog have separation anxiety? We ended up feeding her foods for sensitive stomach and that made a big difference. When we anticipate her getting stressed, we had to medicate her. The sight of a suitcase would upset her and the 4th of July and New Year's Eve were a nightmare. She was not a big fan of the "booms". Good luck and I hope your dog gets better.

Sick Doodle - tests are negative, help!

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