Will Rooney learn to like Stuart?

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

I have been letting the boys play together for brief periods of supervised play (no butt sniffing), and they have been interacting threw the baby gating.  Today I let them play for a longer time and I get the feeling that Rooney doesn't like Stuart.  Rooney is being somewhat gentle - but was trying to drag Stuart around the house by the ear.  I know that he is showing his dominence by grabbing Stuart by the back of the neck and pinning him down but they never seem to move past that.  There is no chasing a ball or even just running.  Just Rooney grabbing Stuart and shoving him down.  Stuart is sleeping now and Rooney just stands in front of me and lays his face on my knee and just looks at me.  It is like he is depressed or sick or something.  I really thought Rooney would love to have a brother - that is why I got Stuart so that Rooney wouldn't be lonely.  Rooney just looks at me like "is it STILL here?".  Rooney was always a very mellow little puppy and Stuart acts like he is on crack, perhaps Rooney just can't relate. 

[Becky and Murphy]

Jane,

I know my story is a little different since my older dog (Max, a Lhasa-Poo) is 15yrs. old.  But EVERY day...little Murphy (now almost 5mos.) just wants to play and Max wants NOTHING to do with him...actually snarls and barks and lunges towards him as if he's his mother repremanding him.  I get it that Max is tired, and has no desire to play....but when Max was younger, like Rooney, we had a GoldenRetriever puppy, and it took Max some time to accept her, but they eventually LOVED each other...and ran and chased each other.  But Max ALWAYS played the role of the "Boss".  Maybe it was his 'small dog syndrone'.  I do think Rooney will eventually play and love Stuart, when Stuart is older and not annoying to him anymore.  Thanks for sharing your story though....I do plan to get a mate for Murphy someday...and it's good to hear this.  Your guys are adorable! 

[Chelsea and Bailey]

I would not say that Rooney doesn't like Stuart by the way he is playing at all! It may be a little difficult for Rooney to understand that this is his brother, just because they have had to be apart at the beginning.  I am a firm believer in not intervening when dogs/puppies play unless their are signs of true aggression (ie. snarling in a not so friendly way or of course if the other dog cries out).  When Bailey plays with her many doggie friends big and small, they always play with what you are describing ... our one friends new puppy who is 16 weeks now only bites baileys ears and neck trying to pull her to the ground.  So I guess my main is answer is, let the puppies play! They will soon work out a routine in who like to play with whom and in what ways they like to play.  I believe that they can work out their own problems and if Rooney really was annoyed of Stuart he will know of ways to get away or put Stuart in his place.  I do not think you have anything to worry about! I often find that the dogs who are more unsure and those that show more aggressive tendancies have owners who shadow over everything they do, ex. if a dog is playing with them at the dog park biting their ears (in an obviously friendly way or the other dog would howl) the owner will come up and push the other dog away.  This I think makes them fearful of the other dogs and or aggressive as a) it thinks its owner will save them so they do not know how to stand up for themselves or b) it will make them aggressive by them thinking that is not safe playing.... I hope that makes sense.  I  think Rooney and Stuart will be  the best of friends soon, maybe Rooney just wants Stuart to grow up a bit before they really start to play!

[Lori]

Sounds like my oldest son with the middle one!!! I am sure in time he will get used to his little brother & be able to have some fun with him : )

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

O.K. guess I'm back in the puppy group, Pepper is just sixteen months old, so he really is still a puppy.  Anyway I would just like to add that all should be fine with the two friends in the making in a couple of months at most.  At least that is what it has taken for Mitzi to accept Pepper as part of her life.  She was always great with other dogs and we have had other pets along with her though they are not here anymore, one getting very sick after Mitzi was with us just a short while,  the other dying of old age. We also puppy sit my daughter's dog frequently so I was truly surprised when Mitzy became a first class BRAT!  She totally was teaching him this was her territory, taking treats from him as I would give them by jumping right in front to block my hand, taking his toys even when we got her one at the same time, and just generally trying to prove she was leader of the pack. I was forced to reinforce that I am the leader of this pack! lol !

They now get along beautifully, are sharing and play tug of war all the time. In time they will be fine, I am sure of it!

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Jane...this is typical puppy play behavior.  My neighbor has two English Springer Spaniels that are 6 months apart in age.  The older one had to put up with the younger one always hanging on her ears and biting her neck or back leg.  Then when we got Gracie Doodle at 6 weeks, the two Springers met her and instantly they were daily playmates (the were "safe" dogs and it was perfect for the socialization while waiting for the shots).  The older Springer now became the "old lady" and didn't put up with Gracie and would sort of snarl.  The younger Springer now became the victim and Gracie spent all of her time hanging on Sable's ears and biting the neck.  Since Sable was probably 5 months old and still a puppy herself, the two just rolled around and pounced on each other on the grass daily.  The only running or chasing was if one got away and then it was to tackle them back down for more munching on the body!!  We would supervise and have always been amazed as to how we think they are biting or hurting the other dog but are really being very gentle.  If the pup gets too rough or bites a little harder the other will let them know with a yip!  Gracie, Genie and Sable are like sisters.  They are best friends but do no play with each other.  They are together every day and want to be together but they just "hang out".  Gracie is now 4 years old and she really doesn't "play" with other dogs anymore.  Just chills with them and chases her ball over and over.  We have since had a Doodle puppy, a Lab puppy and another Springer puppy added to our neighborhood and the same exact play has taken place...it is just how puppies play!!!  We live in a cul de sac and everyday all the dogs in the neighborhood (8 of them) meet up in front of one house and socialize and we chuck the ball up the hill for those who are ball obsessed to chase.  Little Rooney is probably a little upset but he will grow to love Stuart.  You will most likely hear from Jane, Guinness and Murphy, Laurie, Fudge and Vern, Allison, Lady Peri and Tacky and the others who have added to their family much the same thing.  I can only imagine how you are feeling.  You love Rooney so much and he is your "baby" and the thought of hurting his feelings or having him feel unloved breaks your heart.  As long as you are treating him as you always have he will be fine and soon you will be jealous of the two ignoring you so they can play!!!  ha ha

[Sorana, Darwin and Chance]

Jane, I was in the same situation you're describing when we got Chance (minus the giardia).  Darwin seemed depressed for a couple of weeks at least - he didn't even get the zoomies!  Chance is really energetic and feisty, like Stuart (and I guess like most really young pups), and liked to jump on Darwin's head, pull his ears, etc.  Darwin was not a big fan of the exuberance and frequency with which this happened.  So they did play, but not in the joyful way dogs play at the park, but with more growls and barks from Darwin (for example, if the puppy came to chew a toy beside Darwin, D would bark at him and walk away).

 

However, things have definitely improved with time!  Chance is 5 months now, and I would say that for the last month at least Darwin seems to have gotten to really like him.  They play a lot (tug, chase, wrestling, taking turns running after the ball in the park), and they sit companionably beside each other in the evenings chewing toys.  Chance is fully housebroken now, so we leave them together loose in the house during work hours, which I think also helps them bond.  Another thing I believe helped a lot is that I started to walk them together when Chance was around 3months old.  One walk together per day, going to the nearby park.  I think that helped Darwin feel like Chance was "part of the pack".  Now things are going great, and I'm not even sure that Darwin remembers what it was like to be an only dog!

 

So have hope!  Stuart is little and learning fast, and pretty soon he'll grow into a wonderful pal for Rooney.  

 

[Adina P]

I think they'll be fine with time.  I think the concept of 'brother' is a human concept and dogs don't necessarily have that same concept of 'siblings' in the same way...and even human brothers don't always LIKE each other all the time.  Rooney probably wasn't lonely, but that doesn't mean he and Stuart can't learn to get along just fine.  They've had so little time together and dogs don't always become friends the way we envision them: chasing balls together, parallel play, snuggling all the time, being fair, etc. 

 

To me the most important thing with regard to the relationship between multiple dogs is that no dog try to bully the other around and no dog acts like he owns the place or in an aggressive manner.  Anything else is icing on the cake.  But again your dream of two 'brothers' frolicking and romping together happily and sleeping side by side and being best friends may still very well come true.  It's just a bit soon to tell what their final relationship will be like. 

 

If it's any help...that's one of Rosco's preferred methods of play with Boca (grabbing scruff of neck) and how he often played with Thule (in addition to nightly humping attempts).  Sometimes they ignore each other and do their own thing, other times they wrestle pretty hard, other times they chase things...it varies through the day.

 

Someone else mentioned that his treatment/play with Stuart doesn't indicate 'dislike' and I agree.  If he was really hatin' Stuart he'd be much 'meaner' than that!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Don't worry. It will be okay.  I had Taquito the spoiled only dog chihuahua before Peri...it took 2 weeks.  Peri def. still annoys him, but they love each other and when Peri is gone, Tacky sulks and looks for her everywhere.

Peri drags Tacky by the collar. Taquito snaps at Peri a lot.  Bottom line:  they love each other and cannot stand being alone now.  Really.

[Jennifer and Jack]

Well as you well know our other puppy was just born, but I thought I would share with you when I lived with my friend that had three doodle and I brought Jack into the picture. I lived there for six months so it was like we all lived together. Jack was very close in age to the middle male doodle, they were only about six or seven months apart.

 

At first Jack was trying to be the boss, big surprise, what helped us merge them nicely is, walking them together and not letting one of them lead, but keeping them together. I also fed Jack last, they were all fed at the same time but I put his bowl down last. It took a while and over all Jack was still the more dominate one of the four of them.

 

They played together like brothers, wrestled and looked for each other when they were separate. When the baby puppy was added to the mix, at first all the dogs, including Jack snarled at her, and growled if she went near them, That lasted about three or four days. Jack broke the "we don't like the puppy streak" and started playing, within a few days they all played together, except the oldest dog, he rested for the most part.

 

I think a lot of moms on here can show you pictures of their two dogs playing together, sleeping together, They just need to find their place together, I don't know too many people who have never at one point or another question if they did not make a mistake getting a second puppy.

 

I believe this phase will pass quickly.

[Patty, Roxy & Spencer]

When we got Spencer, Roxy was 11 mos. old.  They actually have the same parents, so they are related.  But, Roxy didn't quite know what this "puppy" was doing in her house!  We made sure they weren't alone for the first few months and if she got to rough we would correct her.  They managed to work it out and still play pretty hard with each other.  At first the play fighting was a bit disturbing to me.  They weren't hurting each other, it is just how some dogs play.  Roxy is two and Spencer is 1 1/2 and they still chase each other, nip at each other's ears and tails.  Even though Spencer is 10 lbs. heavier, Roxy still rules and can pin him down and roll him over!  The sweetest time is when they lie down nose to nose and lick each other's faces making these humming sounds. So cute! We always put Roxy's bowl down first when feeding them and for the first few months we made sure we spent alone time with each dog during the week either training or walking.  I think that it's important, especially for the first dog.  We just made sure that Roxy still maintained her first dog status and shower both with lots and lots of love.  Not hard to do!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This is so funny, Jane.  I was having a real hard time remembering when we first brought Murph home and how Guinness reacted.  They're such "buds" now, I just couldn't even think about it being any other way.  So, I went back and looked at my DK blog for the first day that we brought Murphy home.  Here it is....

Oh, what an amazing, incredible day. We're home. The trip was perfect. Guinness didn't throw up or drool. We didn't get lost....thank heaven for GPS. In years past, DH and I wouldn't be speaking by the time we got there...you know that "asking for directions thing". Lynne's home is Doodle Disneyland! Guinness loved it...I think he wanted to stay. All these awesome Doods...all sizes! It is just such a fun and amazing feeling there. On the trip home my two boys snuggled together and slept..the whole way! Guinness never closed both eyes though. Just one at a time. Then we got home. Guinness started the "humping"...what's up with that! He doesn't do that. It's gross! Well it happened three times, and then Murphy put him right in his place. It hasn't happened since. Okay, I took a break for potty. I learned they won't potty together yet...to busy playing. So, it's one at a time. Oh no, Murphy is trying to hump Guinness. Nice thing for a big brother to teach the baby. They were both starving. Guinness's food on one end of the kitchen and Murphy's on the other end. Nice try, Mom. All of a sudden Guinness likes kibble....I don't think so! They are great about sharing the water bowl though...very cute! Since dinner they've been wrestling non stop. My son wants to know if there is a "WWE" for dogs...he thinks they would be stars. I know Guinness is exhausted. I think he's thinking "okay Mom, the play date is over, can he go home now?". The most interesting part will be in a little while when it's our traditional "cuddle time" in the bed. Hmm, how will Guinness like that? Murphy is a Doodle "cowboy". He's rough and tough and takes no prisoners. He growled and nipped at me when I went to put the leash on him...he's not crazy about that leash. I think my response made him aware that wasn't going to "fly". Guinness looked appalled. If he could talk I'm sure he would have said..."big mistake". He is very sweet, but I'm going to need to start the training right away because he's "spunky" with a mind of his own. I have seen that already. Guinness, my "velcro" dog doesn't seem to know I'm alive tonight. I wonder how long that will last? I'm too tired to upload the pictures tonight....besides it's our cuddle time. I promise tomorrow though. I wonder what the night will bring? Should be interesting. Thanks again to all my DK friends for your well wishes and support, and special hugs from Guinness and Murphy to the "fairy godmothers". Good Night till tomorrow.

So now I'm going to go back to see how this unfolded throughout the week....my memory isn't what it used to be!

Here it is...the post three weeks later...

Tomorrow it will be three weeks since we made of NJ road trip to bring our Murphy home. In some ways it feels like he's been part of our family for so much longer. He is one of my boys now, and I love him with all my heart. He and Guinness were fast friends, and that bond just continues to grow. They are crazy about each other. Sometimes when I watch them "Doodling around" I just can't help but laugh. They are clowns together. Guinness though has really developed some "older brother" behaviors. It's like he doesn't want to do anything wrong. He has completely stopped stealing things from the waste baskets....I can now leave them on the floor in the open and they don't go near them. He has stopped destroying his toys...he used to be obsessed with that. I think now he just is no longer bored, and there are more fun things to do with Murphy.
This puppy is amazing. He still doesn't mouth, or jump or chew. Is he really a Doodle? If you tell him "no" once, that's it. I just don't get it. I just put a video out of the Irish brothers playing together. You'll notice in our "office" my files still sit on the floor in wicker baskets. Murphy went over to them once and started to pull out papers...I told him no and took him away. He has never gone back. He's great on the leash now, and I can walk the two Doods together...no pulling or biting the leash. Murph will just walk next to Guinness. I have to remind Guinness about getting ahead of me, but never Murphy. He's becoming so much more affectionate. He used to always defer to Guinness during "cuddle time". Now he climbs right up on my lap, even if it means sitting on top of Guinness. He's getting big. I can no longer pick him up...and I do miss that. He has training class tomorrow, and he needs to do a sit/stay for at least a minute. We practiced this morning, and he does it well if Guinness is also doing it. He'll do anything Guinness does. I wish I could bring Guinness to class with me.
So, it's all good here. The boys are now sleeping until 6:45 which is like heaven. We still have to bring the puppy out every hour or so during the day. He drinks a lot....so he pees a lot too. That just goes with the territory. I have definitely learned that it's easier with two. So everyone with "puppy fever"...I can highly recommend it.

There it is...I hope this helps!

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

How cute - it does give me hope!  I'm kinda stuck right now in the "what the dog have I done stage" but I am doing things with Stuart to help us to bond.