Problems with an irresponsible owner of an aggressive dog.

[Heather & Jake]

This just really irks me so I had to vent and get it out somewhere where people would understand.  Has anyone else out there ever experienced doodle related dog aggression???

In our first dog obedience session three months ago, there was a rescued male Pitbull, about 3 years old, named Pluto.  At the very first class his owner tells us in her introduction that Pluto does not always get along with other dogs.  This immediately sets of a light bulb in my head... if you know your dog can be aggressive, why the heck don’t you have a muzzle on it for not only the safety of others’ dogs, but to not even take the chance of your dog attacking???  My parents have two dog aggressive female rescues, one of which is a Pitbull mix so I have nothing against the breed. They don’t go anywhere without their muzzles just to be safe.  I have also had two rescues in the past put down for being aggressive.  We live in a very strict county that does not take aggression lightly… I would know!   

Anyways, as the first class went on, you could tell there were two dogs Pluto did not like: my 6 month old puppy Jake, and Buster the huge black Goldendoodle.  He would get very tense around them and just stare us all down.  At one greeting practice he even snipped at Jake as we were turning back around but did not get him.  The rest of the class proceeded without incident.

The next week, about 20 minutes into class, out of nowhere, Pluto attacked.   We were taking a little break and we’re about 10 feet away from him and his owner, but Pluto just took her off guard and next thing we knew, he had Jake by the lower jaw.  Jake was screaming and luckily from my experience with breaking up dog fights we were able to stop it before it got worse.  We got Jake to calm down and had a look at his jaw, and it wasn’t too bad but it was punctured and swollen on the outside and inside of his lip; he was very fluffy at the time and I feel all the hair helped protect him.  Jake was a shook up and for the rest of the class and would not interact with any other dog just cowered behind us while Pluto was on the lookout.  No matter how far away, he had his eye on Jake and was pulling and trying to get back at him for more; luckily his owner was paying attention this time.  At the end of class it really bothered be because she didn’t even apologize!!!!

A few days later, our trainer called and asked how Jake was doing and what I thought/felt on the situation.  I felt that as long as Pluto wore a muzzle, I would be fine with him returning to class for obviously he needs the socialization.  But the choice was not up to me and he was kicked out. 

Last night we had our first session of the next level.  Because it’s now summer, we picked a new time and location to have our class which also involved a new trainer… lo and behold as we pull up, Pluto is walking in.  I thought since it is was a county run training program, and knowing how strict our county is, that he was kicked out for good.  Apparently not; he was just transferred to another class; the class that fed into the one we had switched to.  As we approach his owner shouts out a hello and remarks how big he has gotten and talks about how they kicked her out… still no apology.  And of course she’s being a loud mouth shouting over the rest of the class creating a scene and putting me in a very awkward situation.

As class proceeds, this time when we introduce all of ourselves, she asks that we all give her and  Pluto a wide berth because “he had connected with the fluffy guy over there before.”  No, he didn’t connect, he attacked and she’s now trying to make it out as if it’s not a big deal.  Pluto is still not wearing a muzzle and still has it out for my little guy 3 months after the first attack... he would not take his eyes off Jake the entire class, just stares him down and she had to keep correcting him to get his attention back. Thankfully my happy-go-lucky, submissive Jake doesn’t seem to remember or care, but needless to say we were always at least 15ft apart so he didn’t get a chance to “meet” Pluto again.

If his owner were to apologize and take the proper precautions with him wearing a muzzle I wouldn’t care so much but it really bothers me with the audacity of his owner putting other dogs in danger when she knows what hers can be like, and just thinking that staying far enough away is the answer.  She brings a muzzle with her, but what good is it if he’s not wearing it?  What, are you going to put it on after your dog attacks again???  If this trainer weren’t as good as she is I’d switch classes right now.

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

Well said.  I, too, don't automatically reject other dogs as inherently aggressive, however, I distrust pit bulls, as much as I distrusted Doberman's when I was younger.  They no longer are being bred for aggression though, the way a lot of pit bull breeder's seem to do.  An experience at our local dog park when we first got Mitzi and a young pit bull tried biting her face taught me more about the owner's attitude than that of the dog.  His comment was that the dog was "just posturing"; and he made no attempt to correct the mean behavior.  Now I only go to our park when there is a "romp" and I can be assured there will be some friendly dogs with thoughtful owners there.

[Carol Brand]

Wow... just wow.   I think that someone with a dog that is not tolerant of other dogs should be hyper vigilant about redirecting and keeping the attention of that dog off of other dogs.  This is especially true of owners of bully breeds who can be inherently dog aggressive and very dangerous if they do act out.  I don't expect that dogs have to interact with one another, but to come across the room and nail another dog is inexcusable.  Clearly the owner of the Pit was not reading and managing her dog well.

 

I feel your pain. There was a woman who came to our drop in training group a couple of times.  She had a whacked out GSD that was seriously dog aggressive.  She was so clueless.  She had her dog lying by the door so that every unsuspecting dog who walked through was confronted by this raging GSD.  Seriously?  The best part is that she wouldn't move her dog!  ARGH!  Everyone just gave her a really wide berth.

 

Now the flip side.  I own a Standard Poodle bitch who is a breed snob. She is fine other Poodles of course and with herding breeds like Aussies or protection breeds like Rotties or even terriers.   However, she can't stand what I call the "stoofy" breeds like Goldens, Bernies and other big hairy dogs who tend to be canine social goobers.  You know the type.  They are the dogs who run up on other dogs and get in their face and can't/won't read the social clues of other dogs.  Compounding the problem are owners who think their dogs are sooooooo cute and who often can't read that their dogs are actually often passive aggressive: tail up, head up, staring at other dogs and/or trying to put their head over the neck of the other dog etc.  When I see these dogs coming, I have to get Delilah quickly into work mode or she will nail them.  

 

Now I'm not saying that you and your dog do this, but you don't want to fall into that trap.   You may not have control of other dogs in class (or out in public) but you do have control over your own dog.   Make sure that you too are reading your dog.  Don't let your dog stare at other dogs even if you think it is a friendly way.  Your dog can get a quick look in and then should be focused back on you.  There may be a chance that little Jake was sending an unintentionally confrontational message to the Pit.  The Pit may have been telling Jake to "back his s*** down" and Jake may not have been reading his social clues.   I'm not excusing the Pit in any way because his owner should have been on top of him.  I'm also not blaming Jake.  I'm just saying that, in the dog world, it often takes two to tango.  

 

Finally, I would keep a safe distance from this Pit and refuse to work with him in any capacity.  If he continues to stare down your dog, I would point it out to the instructor.  There should be a strict NO STARING policy!  (You laugh, but I've been in training classes where this is enforced.)  

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

We worked on this in class tOo. No staring, no sniffing, no greeting.

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

I agree with everyone else, the dog should be in training WITH A MUZZLE, it is the trainers responsibility to make sure all dogs are safe. I would speak with her privately and if she doesn't agree respectfully ask for your money back.

[Adina P]

Another option besides a muzzle (not that a muzzle is bad) is a backtie to a chain with ample space between aggressive dog and other dogs...so that IF the dog lunged toward any other dog, he wouldn't get anywhere and the other dogs would be safe.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Backtie to a chain?  Can you describe this method or provide a picture?

I've seen a few aggressive dogs in training tied in a method... geesh  hard to explain.   There is a tie at the shoulders that goes under the arms, then a tie at the hips that goes under the legs.  Both of these are connected.  In other words, the restraint is not just at the neck but the entire dog. 

[Adina P]

I believe it is just a chain attached to the collar...same collar the regular leash is attached to.  Just as a precautionary measure so if the dog breaks free from the owner's grasp he won't get far and is still attached to the wall or whatever.  The chain is just a second 'leash' of sorts but stronger for a large strong dog.  

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Makes sense.  Thanks

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

I would NOT be around this dog, you paid good money to teach your dog and he's not getting out of what he needs to. I'm sure they would either refund your money or put you in the next available time slot if you explained the situation to the trainer.

It's not fair to you OR your dogs and I can't believe she gave no apology especially after running into her again!

[Traci -Bexter & Maggie]

This dog owner is RUDE!  I cannot believe she didn't apologize AND she downplayed (lied about) the attack.  If she has that attitude, then how do you know her dog hasn't done this before?  It most likely will again if she doesn't get a grip on her dog's aggression!  There is NO WAY I could stay.  I would have to privately talk to the trainer & tell her that either that dog leaves the class or I am!

[Eva and Fenway]

This story is so frustrating because I see it all the time. There are a lot of Pits in my area (very popular in AZ) and lots of irresponsible owners. I can only assume that they don't actually CARE if their dog is aggressive toward other people - and they attend obedience classes mainly for their own family's sake. Honestly, I think this woman should be required to muzzle her dog and if she was previously kicked out of a state-run course for aggression it seems reckless to allow her back.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

We take Luna to the local dog park all the time... and a few times dogs have been aggressive towards her.

 

A few times she has been pinned by larger dogs who wouldn't let her up or growled/snapped at for no reason.  Luna is not shy (she greets everyone) but is VERY submissive and rolls on her back for dogs of any size if they want to do a lot of sniffing.  She is 35 pounds but is gentle enough to play nicely with a 2 pound Yorkie.  (It was actually pretty funny to see this - Yorkie going crazy on Luna's snout/face and Luna just nosing her gently)

 

My fiance tells people every time a dog is aggressive towards Luna that they should be muzzled if they can't be trusted not to bite, and the owners either say "oh no, they don't mean anything by it" or they simply ignore us.  The responsible owners of dogs who are aggressive either have their dogs muzzled or on leash to limit their interactions. 

 

As for training class - In Luna's basic obedience class we had a few rescues who had dog aggression issues.  They lunged at dogs (including mine and an even younger GR puppy) and barked aggressively.  Those dogs were separated from the others in the class for the first few weeks by a screen to prevent the "stare down" that could set them off.  The dogs were rewarded when they were being quiet behind the screen with a high value reward and attention.  After a few weeks, they would come into class, settle down and be ready to work. The owners were always careful to keep their dogs physically separated from the others to not give them a reason to start a fight.

 

It's amazing what a little responsibility from the owners and a trainer with common sense can do...and how some people clearly care so little about the safety of other dogs (and owners).