What if your dog didn't come from a rebutable breeder

[Jane Smith]

Apparently when I got my girls (a year apart) I didn't know much about breeders, or what questions to ask, if any.  I am now thinking that I got my girls from puppy mills, and I just feel sick.  I mean I love them, and they are healthy, but to think I contributed to that makes me sick.

 

The reason I suspect this, is I e-mailed the guy that set it up (both dogs were flown in from different states), and told him that I had someone that was interested in a dog from Ethel's breeder, and if he could get me the name of the breeder.  I have not gotten a response and this was a few days ago.  When I told the interested party that I believed I went through a breeder broker type thing, she informed me that it definitely was a puppy mill then and not a rebutable breeder.   Yikes! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Adrianne, thank you for addressing the parents of the puppies who are bought from these internet sites and pet stores. So many people only worry about the health of the dog they bought; they don't think about that dog's mother, who is living her life in a dark filthy cage, turning our litter after litter until her uterus is falling out of her body and she is riddled with mammary tumors. No love, no affection, no care, ever, for her whole life. This is what people leave behind when they "rescue" a dog from a pet store. Thank you for being brave enough to mention this.

Buying a dog from an internet broker or a pet store is not rescuing. It is, as Adrianne says, sentencing the parents to more litters, and sentencing more puppies to start their lives as breeding dogs for the mills as the older ones stop prodcuing. If no one buys, the breeding stops. No one has to beat themselves up about being uninformed or making a mistake, but please don't compund the mistake by calling a puppy mill purchase a "rescue". When you adopt a rescue dog, your money goes to vet and save more dogs. When you buy from a mill, your money goes to the person who is abusing more dogs. The person who purchased Jackdoodle from the pet store did not "rescue" him, and certanly didn't rescue his mother or father. I see so many discussions here on DK where people are looking for their doodle's siblings, or talking about their doodle's mother and father. Those of us whose dogs came from the mills can't have happy discussions about our dogs' relatives...we can only hope they got out.

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

Ah, deja vu!  Karen, this so brings back vivid memories of my "initiation" into DK.  You totally lambasted my article focusing on one word, "health".  I, at the time, didn't realize how much I could say and should have said and also had just lost a much beloved pet at the time from health issues which was still fresh in my mind.  It started with a mammary tumor and she had never been bred.

.  Basically, that I am in total agreement with your thoughts on p.m's.  I can't even write out the words anymore, but in the past month or two I have noticed several comments about puppy mills (oops) that you haven't even commented briefly about.  Wow!  Did I ever bring out the defense mechanism in you, and still seem to.  I am very proud of your stance and respect your position.  Perhaps a group should be formed on

ALL THE REASONS WHY NOT TO GET A PET SHOP OR PUPPY MILL DOG  might be helpful instead of making people feel bad after they have already unknowingly stepped into a world they are unaware of.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Sally, my response here is clearly to Adrianne's comment, not yours, so I'm confused as to why you feel it was directed at you, or anyone else. Simply an elaboration on Adrianne's post, nothing personal, no defensive mechanisms, and no attempts to make anyone feel bad.

 

[April Cliber]

Amen, amen, amen!!!  I look at my girls every day with love and admiration.  I OWE them a great life and clean, healthy home.  I adore my puppies but their parents are MY babies.  Puppy mill puppies will eventually get homes.   Their parents live a horrible, pain filled life and then are killed when they are no longer "valuable."  This sickens me and makes my heart hurt. 

PLEASE don't JUST ask about the health or testing of parents of your puppy. Make sure they are living with the same amount of love and care you will give your puppy. Don't they at least deserve that?? Health testing is extremely important but it is only part of the equation.

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

Karen,

Thank you for clarifying your position.  Yes, to this day I am an overly sensitive person.  As my original comments were

regarding "health" issues I did take the comments perhaps a bit too personally.  I appreciate your answer and do

fully hope you did not take offense to my response.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

No problems. :)

[F, Calla & Luca]

I would like to clarify one thing. Many excellent breeders sell their dogs over the internet. But these are individual breeder sites, with health tested dogs, and health warranties. When I was looking for my dogs there essentially were no NJ in state breeders of labradoodles. I ended up getting them both my dogs from distant breeders. But I spoke to the breeders and checked things out. There is a big difference between a puppy broker on line or someone who just has a website and the good breeders who have websites. Everyone has to do their homework for sure.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

F - I did not mean the good breeders that have a website to promote their dogs. If someone is looking for a doodle or any other breed, they need to really look at the site. Check to see if they are registered with the Department of Agriculture. Karen will tell me if this statement is wrong but I believe that if they are registered with the DofA they are a kennel (PM) and not a breeder of a couple of litters per year per female. The sites all look just incredibly wonderful, raised with my kids, in my home, etc. Then the consumer must do further research. Do they breed labra and goldendoodles, maltepoos, yorkiepoos, shepadoodles and list goes on. THAT is a PM. Not the breeder that verifies genetic testing, who will let you come to their home to pick you puppy? Will they put their pup on commercial transport to you? That is what I meant about internet sales.

[Kate]

Does anyone know much about the GANA website? I have been utilizing that in my neverending search for a good breeder. Apparently to be on the site health testing must be done, and it's easy to see who does the standard testing of hips, cardiac, etc. and who does that plus goes the extra mile.

 

Even then, major consumer research must be done to see if the dogs are bred humanely in the home or in a kennel type situation. Honestly I am starting to feel like I will never find my new puppy... :-(

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

KATE:The best way to know you are buying from a reputable breeder is to go with a solid recommendation from someone who has BEEN to the breeder's house OR GO YOURSELF! 

 

Have you not been able to find any on DK? 

 

I knew Peri's breeder was good for the following reasons:

1. health testing & copies of health records were provided

2. her premises (dogs in house, mothers and fathers in guardian homes, clean, not too many litters, met mother (father at another breeder))

3. she keeps in touch with her families - when I visited Peri while she was growing up, I met families that were coming back for the 2nd and 3rd doodles

4. she organizes the MidTN romp and supports local rescue organizations

5. she donates a dog from most litters to various charities that train for therapy dogs.

 

It was a feeling I got and I knew I was dealing with a good breeder.

[Kate]

Hi Allyson - I live in WI and so far I haven't been able to find any really good ones that do standard size. I really wanted to be able to visit the breeder before putting a deposit on a future litter, but finding one that does standards that isn't 8-10 hours away has been tough. (One good one I found is in TN, the other is in OH.) :-( I am going to send you a private message to see if the breeder you use is the one in TN that I like.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Kate, I just sent you a message with a couple of names that are reliable.