diet for liver issues

[Marcy and Cocoa]

I wonder if someone can help me.  This is perhaps a bit premature since we are still waiting for further test results but my 3 yr old GD was found during routine blood work to have abnormal liver enzyme readings.  The blood work was repeated with the same result.  Rather than treat her with a broad spectrum antibiotic and perhaps waste important time, i elected to have an ultrasound to rule out tumor, etc.  Nothing was seen in the ultrasound so they proceeded to do an ultrasound guided biopsy last Thurs.  Preliminary results show a pigmentation for copper storage disease, but quantity and final biopsy results are pending.  I asked the vet how she would treat the problem and the first thing she said was diet  - and mentioned a Hills Science Diet formulation forliver disease - which this VCA facility sells.  To be fair, i don't think she is pushing the sale, but i think that she just doesn't have any more specific knowledge of the good/bad, do's/don'ts of the issue. I asked what specifically she would include and/or exclude from a diet for this issue and she suggested i see a pet nutritionist - which i am willing to do, but i thought i would look for help here too.  Cocoa currently eats Orijen Fresh Fish (with a spoonful of pumpkin) - a very high protein food, which is what i seem to read is appropriate to support a damaged liver.  Any thoughts as to what  - assuming this is the issue - i should be doing?  Cocoa is totally asymptomatic - no evidence of any problem at all in her behavior, eating, drinking, eliminating, etc.  Thank you.

[F, Calla & Luca]

The first thing to do is to make certain of the diagnosis. If Marcy does have copper storage disease it's essential to prevent further organ damage by feeding a low copper diet. I imagine home cooking may be the way to go but further research would be needed. Here are articles I found.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/endocrine/c_multi_copper_storag...

 

http://www.televets.com/articles/dogs/liver-disease-in-dogs-cats.html

[Marcy and Cocoa]

thanks - it looks like it will be a few more days until all the lab results are back.  I think i will consult with the nutritionist at that point as to an appropriate food since home cooking full time is just not going to be possible.  i am looking at the ingredient list for the Orijen and it does have copper on the mineral list - as does the Hills I/D formula.  I wonder if there is a commercial food that doesn't?  I guess i will find out.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm sorry to hear that you and Cocoa are dealing with this.

I agree with F Parker, you need to be sure of the diagnosis first, and then do some research on the disease or condition itself.

You are not going to find a commercial food that doesn't contain copper, it's a required nutrient; it's the amount of copper that is going to vary from one to another. Look at the amount of copper in the Hill's food and then try to find a commercial food with a copper level that is not higher than that, if possible.

If you do see a nutritionist, it is very important that you see a veterinary nutrition specialist, which is a veterinarian with a certified specialty in nutrition, much like an orthopedic specialist, dermatology specialist, etc. Do not consult anyone who just calls herself a veterinary nutritionist but is not a vet...there is no such thing. Anyone can call themselves a nutrtion consultant, and may not have any formal training or education in nutrition at all. There is no other certification or degree in veterinary nutrition other than a DVM specialty.

Good luck, please keep us posted.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I just looked at the nutritional analysis for the Hill's Hepatic Health diet and the Orijen 6 Fish. The Hill's has 4.6 mg per kg. and the Orijen has way more, 20 mg/kg. I am not sure that we are going to find another commercial food that is as low in copper as the Hill's, which is a terrible shame, as the ingredients are beyond horrible.

I just cannot understand why these companies that formulate RX diets can't spend a tiny bit of money making them with quality ingredients. Considering what they cost, the profit margin is outrageous.

[Marcy and Cocoa]

Thanks - i saw the same.  A couple of other high quality foods have more and I also looked at Blue Buffalo, Wellness and TOTW and don't see a specific mineral breakdown.  I agree wholeheartedly - there is clearly a market for high quality commercial food - why not high quality commercial RX diets?  Since home cooking is really not an option i will consult with the Board certified vet nutritionist down in Red Bank and see what i learn ('tho that is also a VCA hospital and may sell the same Hills ...)  Thanks for everyone's input and i will keep you posted.

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

Karen, have you ever heard of Great Life, they have a couple of grain free formulas with copper at 7.79 mg/kg and 8 mg/kg.  Here's a link to their website http://www.doctorsfinest.com/category_s/79.htm

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We have a couple of old discussions here in TFG about Great Life, from back in 2009. The formula has been improved since then. I would have to look into their sources before I could recommend it, but on the face of it, it looks okay. If it was a choice between this and the Rx crap, this would win hands down...a thousand times better ingredients.

[Marcy and Cocoa]

I will bring info about Great Life when i visit the vet nutritionist.  It looks promising - thanks.  It looks like the vet where this nutritionist is located (Red Bank, NJ) has their own line of RX food - http://www.rbvh.net/services/rayne/rayne.html.  I will report back what i learn about that as well.  

 

 I still have no final results back.  Initial testing shows slight "pigmentation" for copper storage, but we are still waiting on a definite answer.  Still no symptoms, so that is a good thing!  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The Rx foods sold at the specialist's location are much much higher quality foods than anything Hill's makes. If you have to go with an Rx diet, that would be my choice.

Here is the nutritional information for the Rayne Liver Support formula:

http://www.raynenutrition.com/uploads/RC006%20Low%20Protein%20Pinto...

This is outside my scope of knowledge, and I would not contradict the vet nutritionist if this is the diet she feels is best for Cocoa. It's a vegetarian diet with very low protein, and is apparently formulated with the appropriate nutrient balance for dogs with serious liver disease. It doesn't contain a bunch of junk like Hill's formulas do. When it comes to serious health issues, I try to go with the specialist's advice.

 

 

[Marcy and Cocoa]

I thought i would pass on the latest non-news.  After weeks of tests - blood, urine, ultrasound, biopsy, more blood, more urine, we have absolutely no explanation for the original elevated liver enzyme reading.  Not copper, not iron, not a kidney issue leading to liver issue, not anything at all that either my vet, her colleagues in a large office or the pathologist can determine.  Since Cocoa has no symptoms at all we are now going to leave things be and do another blood test in 8 weeks - unless of course symptoms develop.  Since she is on high quality food (Orijen Fish) and does well on it, the advice is to leave well enough alone for now, since there is no evidence her diet caused the original issue.  While it is frustrating to have put Cocoa through all this with no result, i have decided to go with the theory that the good news is there is no result!  Thanks for everyone's input and help!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I hope all goes well for her!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Just take her in in 8 weeks and keep us posted!!!  Hopefully it is a non-issue.