Advice needed

[Terri]

I am new to the doodlekisses website, but have already greatly appreciated the wealth of information that I have gathered. So a HUGE thank you to all of you!

I am hoping that you all can share some more of your wisdom and experience....

I have a 4 month old golden doodle named Crosby. He is such a sweet guy and listens very well inside our home. However outside is a different story. We have been trying to teach him the boundraries of our yard and driveway. He was doing very well and I thought it was working, until recently. He has decided to be more investigative, wandering into the street, and not resonding to my call. We do live on a very private lane, however I am VERY FRIGHTENED by his wandering. I constantly watch him while he is outside, but I do know that accidents happen too quickly. When I have tried to bring him back in, he runs from me thinking that we are playing chase. He has also recently found interest in chasing cars. We are signed up for obedience classes in January. I have read the reviews about barrier fences and electric fences, and I know that our association will not allow a barrier fence.

Please help me by sharing your thoughts and recommendations for keeping my dear Crosby safe.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

On this forum there are different opinions about electric fences. We do have one and we are pleased. It does take about 3 months to be relatively confident that your dog will not break through the boundary. Today I started a discussion about being careful to alway have the collar on the dog and to be sure the the electric fence is working properly. After the training period the problems that occur are usually the owners fault - not putting the collar on the dog or the batteries need to be changed.

The answer seems to be that a barrier fence is best but an electric fence is much better than not having anything.

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

Here are some of the previous discussions on the electric fence...

http://doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/electric-fence-make-sure

http://doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/2065244:Topic:188696

http://doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/2065244:Topic:63866

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Terri:
Andy & Sharon have given you great info. But I would like add this: Until you resolve the fence issue, if you want to keep Crosby safe, please do not ever have him outside without a leash! No dog should be, especially a young puppy. He needs to be walked on a leash any time he is outdoors. That will make it impossible to wander off, chase cars, etc., and he will be very easy to bring back in.
I lived in a townhouse with dogs for 26 years before moving to my current home, so I understand about associations, and having to walk the dog every time he goes out. Hopefully, you will be able to install some kind of fencing soon.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

We do have a fenced yard so home is not a problem, but we spend lots of time camping (if you call it that) in our RV. We never let Ned off leash outside when we are camping unless there is a fenced dog run. We have two other dogs and we went through this with them but they learned boundries eventually. They are great off-leash and even if the RV door is open, they won't go out unless invited. Each older dog has taught the younger one, but it was at least a year before we could trust them. Have patience, Crosby will learn.

[1qrgkdwnfqccb]

hi terri,
i do not have an e fence nor do i have an opinion on them, but what i do use is an e collar. prior to us moving to our new home we lived very close to a very busy highway, we had a fenced in area of our yard for Izzy but my fear was always that she would hurdle it and run like the wind...so we invested in the e collar ( the one with 2 kinds of settings and a beeper) to ease some of my fears. we could not have made a better decision!! i walked the boundaries with izzy on a short leash along with the e collar on # 1 if she went out of the boundary i beeped it and hit the zap once. if she continued i i hit the button with 3 zaps. it took a matter of maybe 3 days for her to "get it" after that as long as she had the collar on she would go no where near the edge of the boundary! even still in our new home, where the whole yard is fenced she still has to have the collar on before she goes outside, and i will do the same with our new pup tucker once he is old enough for it to fit him. this option is not for everyone! i am just letting you what has worked for us! and what has made me feel way more comfortable in letting them outside.
i hope this helps a little!
good luck!n

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Dear Terri,
This is my advice - your 4 month old or my 9 month old are much too young for us to be comfortable with them coming when called.
And this I say from experience. Samantha is in her 5 th class now, 'Great Outdoors' which is the follow up to 'Off Leash Wonders'. In the OLW Samantha was perfect in the classroom with her recalls. She even bypassed a rolling tennis ball to come to me but that was indoors, in a safe situation.
Yesterday during our 1st GO class the 3rd time around this beautiful field, going in the same direction, passing the same orange traffic cone for the 3rd time, something spooked Samantha. I saw it coming. I saw the panic in her face and body language and there was not a damned thing I could do about it. If her big German Shepard friend had not been nearby I don't know how long she would have run. Maybe 2 feet or maybe 200 feet - I don't know.
But what I do know is in that split second Samanthas reaction made me remember is that she is a puppy and she has not had enough training to trust her to ignore the entire world (including every ball, squirrel, deer or chipmunk) and come when called. She trusts me to keep her safe.
My suggestion, purchase a 20' or 30' leash. Make knots in the leash app every 18" or so (so if you put your foot on the leash, it will hit your shoe at the knot and stop Crosby and not keep sliding through) and practice on the long line him coming to you when you call him and if he chooses not to listen and wanders too far, you have a foot to put on the leash to stop him from going any further and God forbide, get hurt or lost.
Terri, please forgive my being long winded about this but that experience yesterday really upset me. If we weren't in an enclosed environment, Samantha could have been hurt and I am a little freaked out about it. Remember, Crosby is just a little guy and it is our job to keep them safe. Don't trust him outside without a leash on.
Adrianne

[Adina P]

I second what has been said below. Until you have SOME kind of fence, Crosby MUST be on leash --- there are some awfully LONG leashes you can purchase to give him a space, but he really needs to be leashed or somehow confined because accidents do happen quickly as you said. You will not find a four month old who is excellent at responding to the come command it can take up to a couple of years to get a solid recall out of a dog.

I would prefer a solid fence, but if an electric fence is your only option that is better than no fence. But even with a electric fence is still a good idea to be supervising when your dog is outside. Other animals and people can still enter your yard and pose harm to Crosby.

[1qrgkdwnfqccb]

i also need to add that i don't let my dogs out unsupervised...the whole front yard of our home is fenced in, and we have a very large front porch. i am always out with them. and even if i have to go inside for a moment, the whole front of our home is windows, there is nowhere they can go without me being able to see them.
i agree with adrianne completely in that crosby at 4 months needs to be on a leash because it only takes a second for something to happen! it may be a pain for now but someday you will ave a fence and /or crosby will be trained enough for you to feel comfortable. like i said above, i still use the e collar even though Izzy is in a fenced in yard. you can never be too sure!

good luck!

[Deb, Connor & Simon]

Wow! after reading these wonderful replies, it just reinforces why I enjoy this website and its members so much! I'd just like to add that Connor is now 14 months old. In his intermediate class, he is the king of recall. He will run past any distraction to come to me. However...outside is another story. We have a lot of wildlife in our area and the scents of the foxes, coyotes and other animals outdoors are distractions that can't be simulated at class. I never take Connor out for a walk without a leash. He is a wonderful, smart, delightfully well-mannered boy, but he still has a puppy brain. Neither one of my dogs - Connor or my 6 yr old collie - are allowed outside without supervision and 99% of the time with a leash. A leashed walk can be a lot of fun...and relaxing for both you and your dog. :-)

[20xlhzzaoccks]

I agree with all the advice given so far. I have one thing to add. I watch the show "It's me or the Dog" quite a bit because I think Victoria Stillwell has creative and positive training ideas. On a show I saw recently there was a terrier that was having a huge problem with recall. She started with the dog on a long line and she would use a whistle to recall the dog. At the same time she blew the whistle she would sqeak a rubber chicken toy so that the dog associated the toy with the whistle blow. It had an immediate impact for the dog on the show and most doodles love squeaky toys so I thought it might be something to try for training recall.