Help, My Doodle is Smarter than ME!

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Hey everyone, last week Sophie graduated top of her obedience class. She's awesome at obedience, IN Class! Outside of class is a different story.

 

Last night I had them running around inside the tennis court because she would not settle down and I didn't want to go to the dog park in the dark (it was like 10pm). She was playing and jumping really agressively with winston and I could tell he was getting frustrated even though he didn't really react, he never does. So I tried to grab her and she bolted...story of our lives.

 

There was neighbour walking by with her dog and we were chatting a bit and it started up again with the aggressive play. I sheepishly told the neighbour that this is somewhat new behaviour and I'm working on it. Then I tried to leash them up to go but Sophie wouldn't come anywhere near me. I kept calling her and she just stood there looking at me. I told my neighbour she graduated from obedience class with near perfect marks but you'd never know it. She said she totoally believes it, Sophie is a smart girl and knows exactly what she is doing! I guess that's true. My doodle is outsmarting me!

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm begging her to come. It's so frustrating. If I pull out a treat, she's there instantly, but otherwise, forget it! I have to get someone else in the dog park to grab her for me because if she senses I want to leave she won't come near me. She's such a brat! Sometimes I just pretend to walk off with Winston, and go out the gate to the leashing area where the water fountain is. So far that has worked, she follows us thinking she's getting some water, which she does, but as she's drinking I make my move and grab her harness.

 

So yea, I need to nip this in the bud. I've started doing more training at home, like down stays and such, but she's even defying me on those. Winston sets a perfect example, and goes straight down, getting his treat instantly, and then waits patiencly as I have to repeat the cammand like 5 or 6 times and she just sits there looking at me like "what the heck lady??, hand over that treat now". I then have to lure her down with the treat, which is something I never needed to do in our obedience classes.

 

Did I meantion she's 10 months? *sigh*.

 

So I need some tricks and tips for improving recall, and generally reminding my puppy that she is not in charge here (even if she is *slightly* smarter than me).

 

 

[Amanda & Riley]

I have the same problem with Riley at home!! She ended up scoring perfectly in our class but at home she just plays games when I call her to come to me unless I have a treat! Frustrating!

[Carol Brand]

This is going to sound harsh, but here goes...

Sophie doesn't listen to you because she doesn't have to.  Why should she come to you when she is having a grand old time running around.  As far as following directions, why should she do what you ask her to do?  She knows that you will simply repeat yourself until you finally you gently lure her into position with a treat.  Life is good for Sophie.  She gets all the benefits but has no responsibility.

You can get by just fine with this model but someday, somewhere, Sophie might be seriously hurt if she won't come when you call her.  You might someday find yourself alone,cold and wet in the dog park after dark because you can't catch your own dog.  If you really want to fix the problem, you are going to have to change the way you do things.  Are you willing to do that?

 

Basically, right now, Sophie has no consequence for non-compliance.  Get rid of the harness.  Get a collar that you can correct her with.  This can be a plain buckle collar, but if she still blows you off, I'd step up to a prong collar. Here is the unfortunate truth. Regardless of how well she did in class, Sophie does not have a reliable recall.  For this reason you can't ever let her be off leash when you are outside the house.  Not in the backyard, not at the dog park, not on the tennis courts.  You may even consider having her drag a leash around the house.  Every time you give a recall command that you can not enforce, you only set back her training and teach her that she does not have to listen to you.

 

How to fix the recall.  Practice recalls close on an 8' lead.  Put her in a stay.  Walk in front of her and call her to come. Only call her once! DO NOT REPEAT THE COMMAND. If she does not ***instantly*** step out into a trot towards you, give her a solid POP on the collar.  This is her consequence for not coming right away.  You can encourage a faster recall by running backwards as Sophie comes in.  Even if you had to initially pop her, make a huge deal about her coming, "SOPHIE YOU ARE THE SMARTEST AND BEST GIRL!!!!!"  PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE her as she comes in.   As she gets close to you, spread your legs and toss a treat between them.  Have her run right through your legs.  (You may want to practice this close up so that she gets the idea before the recall.)   Running through your legs is fun and it will teach her to come right up close to you on the recall.  Do this multiple times a day until she is rock solid and fast on the 8' recall.  Keep having her run through your legs.

 

Next, move up to using a 20' long line.  You can make one by getting thin rope and a clasp at the hardware store.  Practice recalls at 10' then 15' then 20'.  Work in baby steps.  The biggest mistake that people make is moving too quickly to farther distances.  You will be practicing recall daily for probably the next 3-4 months ON LEASH. 

 

As far as blowing you off on basic commands like sit or down, the same principle applies.  You give a command one time.  If she complies PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE TREAT!   If not, she gets a physical correction in the form of a firm collar pop.  This is not mean.  This is simply cause and effect and it was the dog's choice to not comply.  Make sure that you set your dog up for success.  Have her attention before you ask her to do something (have you taught a focus word?).  I put treats in my mouth and deliver them from there.  I don't show the dog the treat before hand.  The idea is that  I'm not going to bribe the dog with the treat.  Rather I'm going to reward good behavior after the fact.  For this reason I often alternate treats with over the top big party praise. 

 

Good luck!

 

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Hi Carol, thanks for the advice. The thing is is that if we are alone, Sophie will come to me every time. The only exception is when I am going to leash her up, for some reason she doesn't want to be on leash. The only time she won't come to me, is in the dog park. Which is why I posted this since I know how dangerous that can be. I need the park to exercise her as I don't have any other space for her to run around in. I can't let her drag her leash around in the park either since I don't think that would be safe. If I haul out treats in the dog park all the dogs will surround me and that can get annoying. I'm trying to find other ways to get her to focus on me. Last night I realized that I had the tool I needed in my hand the whole time...the ball! She will always race to me to get the ball (even when she's playin with her boyfriend Hank). I always make her come in close to me and sit before I throw the ball and she obliges. This time I did downs instead of sit, and would grab her collar first and say good girl before I would throw it. She obeyed me every time! It worked like a charm!

 

I generally prefer positive reinforcement training to corrective techniques, that's just my preference. If stepping up my game doesn't fix the problem then I will definitely consider getting a prong collar and practicing the collar pops.

[Carol Brand]

Sophie does not have a reliable recall.  Yes, she will come if you are alone, but if there are distractions or if there is something that she would rather be doing then she blows you off.  This is pretty typical dog behavior, but it won't get better without training.  The ball is a quick fix, but what happens if and when someday you don't have a ball?  I understand that you would like to use positive only training, but I would ask:  are you getting the results you want and need?  Do you have a reliably trained dog using only positive methods? 

 

Using a physical correction is not about beating your dog into submission.  It is about teaching the dog that non-compliance has a logical consequence.  You still have to use praise and treats to reward correct behavior. And BTW... you can collar pop a dog with a plain buckle collar. As far as the ball goes, this can be an awesome reward.  I trained my senior bitch all the way through Utility using a frisbee as our primary form of reward.  However, the ball should be a reward and not a bribe.  Throw the ball because she did something you asked her to do.  Don't throw the ball to get her to do something for you.  Do you see the difference?

 

Re the long line in the dog park....    I will note again that if you can't enforce the recall then all you do is teach her that she doesn't have to come if she doesn't want to.  Look back at the incident on the tennis courts.   Did that go the way you wanted it to go?  If she had been dragging a long line, you would have been able to get control of her quickly.  Dragging the long line in the park or on the tennis court is not a big deal.  I've done it successfully with my dogs.   In my experience it will just sort of snake out behind your dog on the ground.  Besides, you are there to supervise the situation and fix any tangles that happen.  During her time at the park you can pick up the end of the line and randomly issue the recall command.  If she comes running PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE.  If she doesn't come, you can reel her in (collar pop or not).

 

[Jennifer and "Cooper"]

Obviously I've made it clear in my replies that I train using corrective techniques.  (It's always worked for me so I've never seen the need to use a different technique.)  So after I posted earlier, Cooper and I went to Petsmart and on the way there I was thinking a lot about the discussion and started to get curious.  As we entered Petsmart, Cooper started walking toward another dog that did not look very friendly (tail straight up and hackles up).  I gave the "No dog" command and he continued toward the dog.  I popped the leash (flat buckle), he immediately turned and came back to my side.  If I were using the positive reinforcement technique in the same senario, what would I have done instead of the leash pop?

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Distraction such as .) walking backwards away from the dog and bringing your dog with you. You can do this by using darting movements to get the dog interested and want to follow you; 2.) using an excited voice and saying "Cooper, come!" and go in the opposite direction (similar to 1); or 3.) put the dog in a sit, down, or some other command. I've only done positive motivation training with Barley. I distract him from the negative behavior by having him do a positive behavior. I took a couple of  classes with Pam Dennison who is pretty reknowned by those who do positive training. She said that "No!" often doesn't work with some dogs and that it's better to refocus the dog what you'd like him/her to do rather than "no". She used the example of once having a small child come to one of her classes and the child kept running around. Saying, "Stop!" or "No running!" didn't work. She was able to get the child to behave by saying "Walk!" (i.e., don't focus on the "not"; focus on what you want the dog to actually do). I know children aren't dogs, but I thought it was an effective analogy. It's worked for me. When Barley starts getting squirrely, I've been able to refocus him.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

I've tried the running in an opposite direction and using an excited voice in the park. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. It used to work really well when she had developed the habit of bolting out the front door into the halway of the apartment. She doesn't do that any more as she's learned 'stay' pretty well.

 

How would you apply the distractions if is she's in a sit and I want her to go to a down?

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

That's a more difficult scenario. To be honest, Barley doesn't have a problem going down with or without distractions. It seems to be his preferred default position. In general, sometimes if Barley is distracted, I'll restart or "reboot" him by getting him in a "stand" position from a "sit". I then walk him in a tight circle, stop, and start again: sit at my side and then go into the down. I used to put the treat under his nose and lure him down; now he's gotten better with the "down" without treats. I still use a hand signal though.  If Barley absolutely won't go down and needs to be, I have pulled his front legs forward. I never popped his collar or pulled on it for the down; I was afraid I'd hurt his neck. Maybe pulling the legs forward would be considered negative reinforcement, I'm not sure. I do consider it cheating. In early days of training, I always made sure I had a variety of treats with me. Switching them up might make your dog more willing to obey. So in case of your dog refusing to go down and is distracted, I'd suggest 1.) "Reboot" him by having him get up, walk, sit, and try down again; 2.) Have a selection of treats including high reward treats. Velveeta is Barley's kryptonite and he can't resist it. This might pull back your dog's attention to you.  3.) If desperate, pull his front legs gently forward and slide him into the down. Don't treat for it though until he obeys you on his own.

 

I'll be honest, I've never used prongs or popped my dog's collar. Barley is a very "soft" dog. On some dogs, those training methods are fine; on Barley, it would make him nervous and crush his confidence and his trust in me. You have to decide what is best for you and your dog. Just because this works on Barley, maybe it won't work for you. I know some people say that all other modes of training but pure "positive motivation" are out-dated and cruel; I think that's kind of extreme.  Based on what wise folks at Doodlekisses are saying, it seems like there is no one "right" way to train and the most important thing is to be consistent with whatever training method you use.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

thanks so much. I agree totally, there is no one 'right way' for every dog. Every dog is different. As for Sophie I've tried leash popping during walks for heel training, it really doesn't work. She just persists over and over again. Perhaps I'm not doing it right.

Really the only thing that works is to keep her focused on me by looking at her and talking to her while we walk and giving out treats once in a while. That means I have to stay 100% focused on her all the time too which I am not good at, my brain wanders so much just like Sophie's lol. That's why I use the easy walk harness when we go out most of the time, as I just don't have it in me to focus on training every single time we go out (at least 4 times a day). I only use a regular collar when I know I'm prepared to focus on 'heel' and 'loose leash' training, which admittedly isn't as often as it should be...

As for pulling her legs forward, she doesn't like it and just bounces right up to stand so it doesn't work for her. I think the 'reboot' idea, by having her get up and move and sit again might help. I'll try that.

[Carol Brand]

Only problem with re-boot is that the dog is once again off the hook.  How many times are you willing to re-boot Sophie before she listens.

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

I have found that talking to Barley improves his focus on me. Also, I'm convinced that Barley has ADD. Are your training sessions pretty short? I've learned to keep my training sessions to 5 or 10 minutes or I lose him.

 

I don't like to physically force dogs; however, if she bounces up, could you hold on to her collar or shorten the length of the leash so she can't bounce up? Good luck with the "reboot" idea! Try it out and see if it works for you. Carol mentions below that it lets the dog off the hook and you might have to do it a number of times. I've found that "rebooting" generally works for me. I also wait out my dog until he understands, meaning I'll keep doing it to him until he "gets" it. Doodles are smart, and sometimes they get it; they just don't want to do it.  I'm learning to be patient and not get stressed out if he doesn't do or understand something immediately. Remember that she is still a puppy and she will naturally get better as she matures.

[Adina P]

I'm willing to bet on the 'perhaps I'm not doing it right' part.  Please don't take offense at that.  Doing it right takes seeing it done right and practicing with someone who knows how to do it right.  It's easy to go wrong in many ways and be wholly ineffective.