Biting when brushing

[Shirley Ames]

My Abigail is so sweet and I love her to pieces and she knows I love her, however she has a habit that runs me crazy. All the time i am brushing her or attempting to,cut her facial hair ,,she wants to be mouthing my hands and nipping me or should I say biting me.

When I first bought her, she was11 weeks,old, I spent alot of time just touching her feet, her ears
and her body,to,get her used to it for the very purpose of making grooming easier.
Do you think I should groom her a couple of x a day for a very short period and treat profusely?
I need some help

[Barb @ Gemstone Labradoodles]

Try making grooming more formal. I mean on a table with a loop. You can start on the table with treats and once you get Abigail to stand nicely on a table, you can start with short grooming sessions while tied. Biting tools while grooming is very dangerous for the dog. If this behavior went on at a groomers they would be forced to put a muzzle on her. Not fun for anyone.

This behaviour is a dominant behaviour. Observe her for other behaviours that might be dominant and see if you can discourage those too. I had a dog aggressive GSD and I fixed it by not allowing 'demand' petting or playing. If she wanted a pat and pushed my hand, I asked her to sit first and then I would pat. If she brought a toy to play I would either not play or go get a differnt toy to play with. For a while I took all toys away and only brought them out for specific play periods. This completely turned her dog agression around.

[Cathy w/Shiloh~Cody]

I may get some backlash for this answer-but I hold up one very tiny piece of hair from the top of my dogs muzzle and when he throws his head or acts like he will nip- his one tiny hair, that I am holding pulls and it hurts him. He then stops moving his head. My dog is excellent when brushing anything but his face-but he still tries the antics that you describe without me getting my one piece of his muzzle hair. My dog is an angel at the groomers with the loop and sits perfectly still-he just tries to see if he can get away with wiggling when I do it myself. My dog does not really nip either-he does pretend-but does not put his mouth on my hand. He air nips sometimes.

 

[Shirley Ames]

Hi Cathy
Thank you for your response. I think this may be an idea worth trying, if perhaps she is testing me.
she is 6 months old and is a very obedient girl, and has been easy to train in all areas. except thiIs. She knows sit, down and comes immediately when I call her She seems to enjoy learning new things
I continue to brush her, and give a verbal correction when needed, but it is not very pleasant when she wants to mouth on my hand SHe seems to enjoy mouthing, she mouth wrestles with my 11 yo sheltie, and they both like to play that way
I am going to try a different approach the nextm time,
Shirley and Abigail

[Bob Johnston]

I am having the same problem with sophie. she is great when I bring her in and put her on the crate to dry her paws off. she will lay down and put her paws in my hands and let me dry them. when we do our brushing session for the day she trys to bite the brush, my fingers, wrist and arms. I kind of give up when she starts to go real crazy and get the brush as I am afraid if she did bite down on it would be like 100 needles stabbing the roof of her mouth. I sometimes wonder if that might be a good thing like the child who touches something hot and then learns from that but for now we only make it a few mins before going bonkers. I am going to start looking at a grooming table attachment for her crate that so she can get used to it for when she is older and save my back at the same time.

[Barb @ Gemstone Labradoodles]

Life has consequences for everyone and every thing. The trick is to make the consequences bad enough to make a point, but not dangerous. I try to manage consquences for bad behaviour without being the bad guy. Getting prickled with a brush would fall into that category.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Tara was also very difficult to brush exhibiting similar behaviors-biting, nipping, etc. Finally, during her puppy coat change I totally lost control of her coat because I just couldn't get the job done. She had to be cut very short which was awful but it gave me a chance to "start over" with her grooming training. I did a couple of things that have helped but she is still not perfect, especially around her face and tail.

One thing I did was teach her  the word "face". I did this during regular training time when we were practicing sit, down, etc. "Face" means that I am going to reach out and hold/touch her face and she must sit very still. Of course she got a big reward for doing it correctly.This helped to desensitize her to having her face worked on. Now I can use the word "face" during grooming and she is still or at least still enough for me to work on her. I can see that it is still very stressful for her to be worked on in around her face. But I can do it now. :)

Also, after her big cut down I started desensitizing her to the brush and comb. She didn't actually need groomed at that time so I started by using the backside of the brush and just running it over her body and treating her for being calm. Over time I worked up to the working side of the brush and went from there. Today grooming time still involves treats and my being sensitive to her tolerance level. I try to make it fun for her. She is very treat motivated which helps.

It also made a big difference in her grooming tolerance when I bought a CC pin brush and a Bamboo comb with rolling teeth. They are much gentler than some of the other types of brushes and combs and she tolerates them much better.

[Shirley Ames]

Ricki thank you for your response.
What is the CC pin brush and the bamboo comb and where did you get them
The things you suggest and your method sounds great also.
I may just have started off and pushed her on this too much.
I think I will start over again ,very slowly and I feel she will respond differently. she is really a sweet little girl,and is not stubborn
thank you all for your comments. They have been very helpful, and I know we will get this right. Will keep you posted.
Shirley and Abby

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

You can see the CC pin brushes at this site:

http://www.chrissystems.com/grooming-tools/brushes-/pet-grooming-sh...

Ours is the Gold Series 20mm oval pin brush. I talked with a seller and she said this was the most gentle one in their line. The pins are rounded on the ends so they don't scrape if you accidentally get too close to the skin. I tried it on myself and LOVE it! LOL! Oh, that reminds me, be sure that you are not scraping her skin with the brush as some are quite sharp. I think I may have been doing this to Tara at first and I'm sure it didn't help the situation any! :(

The CC line and Les Pooches line of brushes are used by many DK'ers who are very happy with them but they are expensive. So it is important to determine your doodles coat type and get a brush that is appropriate.  The denser more poodley coats require a different type of brush then a wavy fleecy coat. (Tara's is very fine wavy fleece).  I haven't spoken with them but am told the people at Doodle Country Store can help you determine what type of coat your doodle has and what brush would be best. I think they sell Les Pooches but not CC

There have been many discussions about brush/coat types here on DK that you can find by searching in the grooming group. Here's one:

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/what-kind-of-brush-should-...

Here is a link that will show you the Bamboo Rolling tooth combs. They come in fine, medium, etc. and different styles too but the main thing is that because the teeth rotate it reduces the drag on the hair.

http://www.shopwiki.com/l/Bamboo-Dog-Rotating-Fine-Tooth-Comb

I understand what you are saying about Abby being normally sweet, not stubborn and easily trained yet still having problems with grooming her. Tara was the same way-sweet, smart and not stubborn but she REALLY hated being groomed!  She got to the point that whenever a brush would touch her she would flinch like she had just received an electric shock! I felt so bad for her. I knew it wasn't hurting her but I hated that she was so scared. Good luck with your new methods!

[Barb @ Gemstone Labradoodles]

For my thin coated f1 I use the CC wooden pin brush. I call it the 'spa brush'. All the dogs love it.

[Shirley Ames]

Good morning everyone.
I took the advice of many of you who suggested the bamboo comb . I ordered one on line from Entirely Pets . I also noticed there was a brush made by them, which I ordered. It has a brush on one side, the other side is a pin with the small little balls on the tip. I tried it out on me to see if it hurts. Lol. It didn't.
Hope it work well, and keeps her a bit more relaxed while grooming.
The lespooches brush is out of my reach right now.
will let you know how it goes. probably won't get to use it today with all the preparation for Father's Day
Have a great day

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Wonderful Shirley! I always try out Tara's tools on myself too! I even ran the clipper over my arm!  I just don't want to hurt her.  I'm curious to hear how the brush works too. Please let me know-I'm always looking...

[Barb @ Gemstone Labradoodles]

Note about using the Les Poochs brushes. You should be able to brush your skin with them without scratching. That will tell you how much pressure you apply to use the brush. I think most people use those brushes too firmly. They are designed ergonomically to save the groomers' muscles and joints. Groomers can easily get debilitating stress injuries from a repetative motion and it is common. You really need no pressure on a Les Poochs brush to have it be effective. Line brushing is also an essential part of the effectiveness of the brush.  Test your pressure on yourself regulary to make sure you are not using it in a way that hurts.