where can i post about a breeder? or is that not allowed?

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

hey everyone...where can i post about a breeder? is that allowed?

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Midas is about 8 months old now and you have had him for 6 months.  If he is healthy and happy that is all that matters.  You cannot unring the bell.  I also bought a puppy mill dog that I loved but all the knowledge gained on this site enabled me to look for the right things this time around.  Enjoy Midas.

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

It doesn't matter one bit in how I feel about Midas, but it does matter that if she is linked to a puppy mill, it's not fair to all the puppies she may continue to breed. I do want to hear if u all honestly think she could be working as a puppy mill because then I am concerned about the breeding mommies and the rest of the puppies there! I would want to help them somehow. Also I was not on this site until about 2 months after I got Midas so I didn't know about the what to look for in breeders list. :(

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Puppy mills are not warehouses. They are usually large properties with a home where the owners live, and lots of dogs, lots of out-buildings, separate kennels, outdoor pens and cages, etc. So yes, this could be a puppy mill; they would not necessarily be linked to a puppy mill, they would actually be a puppy mill. At best, it's a large backyard breeding operation.  I can give you lots of links to information about puppy mills and what you can do help. Unfortunately, it is prefectly legal to run puppy mills in most parts of this country. There are thousands of people and huge organizations like the Humane Society of the United States working hard to try to change legislation and expose these places, as well as educate the public, and the puppy mills still go on operating and making profits. Concern for the breeding dogs is a huge priority. The best way to help is to learn as much as you can about this issue and help to educate others, donate money to the organizations trying to stop these practices, support rescue groups, vote to help pass legislation that prevents puppy mills from operating in your area, and never support these places, which also means never purchasing anything from a pet store that sells puppies. There are hundreds of thousands of puppy mills operating in the U.S.

Here are some resources:

Prisoners of Greed website

Humane Society Puppy Mill info

ASPCA Puppy Mill Info

Friends of Animals

Animal Planet Videos on puppy Mills

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There are also brokers who sell puppy mill dogs on the internet. This is one of the largest ones:

Purebred Breeders LLC

Every puppy on the site is from a puppy mill. Many people, including DK members, have been fooled by them.

Here is an investigative report about this company, which is still in business.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2011/12/purebred_b...

 

[Lori, Quincy & Frankie]

I looked at the Purebred Breeders site-they all look so cute.  Glad I did not see that site before getting my pup.  I bought from a small home breeder, mostly with my heart, but got lucky.  

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I also didn't find DK until Samantha was home for weeks. I had no ida about PMs and it I never even thought where puppies in pet stores come from. I always went to a breeder for our pups and never even walked into a pet store - until that day in May 2008. Two hours later Samantha met the rest of our family.

Then I found DK. Then I was educated. I have never felt so guilty in my life!!! Not for having Samantha - but I allowed her poor Mom to be bred again and live a life that makes me sick. 

Now I rescue, foster, adopt and educate! Educating those that are clueless like I was has become a passion. That is the best way to help those poor dogs living the life they are. If more know, then they won't help support the pockets of the PMs.

Love Midas as I love Samantha!

[Adina P]

"Puppy Mill" is a judgmental term. Now, I don't mean 'judgmental' as in bad or inappropriate.  What I mean is that it isn't a 'thing' -- it is a description of breeding establishments that make people think "horrible"!  So puppy mills being 'legal' just means that there aren't laws that prevent certain aspects of what most of us consider a 'mill'.  

It's not like you can look at the laws of a state and look up "Puppy Mills" and see it written that "Puppy Mills are legal in Pennsylvania.  To apply to start a Puppy Mill call our office."  Puppy Mill is a term that is used to indicate a breeding establishment is pumping out lots of pups, using lots of breeding dogs, and most likely these dogs are not kept in good condition.  Most people running a large breeding establishment don't consider themselves puppy millers. 

There are laws that are supposed to prevent gross cruelty and neglect of animals.  So usually keeping dogs in tiny cages in their own feces, etc...these kinds of things are often against the law.  But having 40+ breeding dogs that live in a kennel environment and pumping out 40 litters a year if it 'looks' sanitary is okay in a lot of places because as long as the operation meets a few key standards it's fine per the law in that state. 

To me the simple fact of large volume is enough for me to think of something as a mill.  Because to me a mill is where you make things in large volume.  Like a paper mill.  It's a factory.  It may be clean, tidy, they may have lots of employees, etc...but I would not buy a dog from someone who is breeding at such large volumes.  I just don't trust that they know their dogs well enough.  Certainly can't evaluate how well suited each breeding dog is for training, family life, etc.  I can see how this sort of breeding can be debated though because not everyone believes dogs have to live indoors and be treated like a son/daughter. 

On the other hand where there is clear cruelty, abuse, neglect, dogs left in cages since puppyhood, little to no medical treatment...that kind of stuff is 'easier' to label as a puppy mill.  But both are doing a disservice to dogs and their future owners, in my opinion.  But the stuff that isn't quite a cruelty/neglect case easily gets unnoticed/falls through the cracks and potential buyers can talk themselves into buying puppies there much more easily....  It even happens with pups from the awful cruel places because you can say you are 'saving' the puppy.  Even though buying just supports the continuation of the problem.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes, but there are still states that currently have no statewide licensing and inspection regulations for commercial dog breeders, as per the HSUS. So it's not true that "there are laws that are supposed to prevent gross cruelty and neglect of animals"...in some states, there are no such laws or even a "few key standards." These places don't even have to "look" sanitary.

In the Amish puppy mills, there are often out-buildings filled with hundreds of dogs that have been debarked so that nobody will know they are there.

In every case of a major puppy mill that was busted and shut down, those involved started another operation under a different name in another location.

And in many places where there are standards of any kind, the yearly inspections don't take place, because the agencies that conduct them are understaffed and underbudgeted. Or if they do take place and violations are found, the agencies never follow up to see that they are corrected.

 

 

[Adina P]

True, thanks for pointing that out that it is not in every state.  My point was mainly that there are the obvious milly places that are horrible neglect/abuse/cruelty cases (perhaps even if there are no such laws on the books) and there are the clean-sanitary-not-owned-by-evil-people kind of places who pump out TONS of dogs and they are both places I wouldn't buy from.  The nice, clean places can get away with saying "I'm not a puppy mill" because no obvious damage is happening and the dogs are relatively healthy and kept well.  But just because they aren't living in filth doesn't mean it's a good place to buy a dog.  So even if Midas wasn't from the ugly scary place...the red flags are enough to suggest probably not a great place to recommend.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Exactly. And just because they aren't being mistreated or the people seem "nice" doesn't mean it's a good place to buy a dog, either. Anyone who is just breeding dogs with the sole purpose of selling puppies and is not doing every single thing they possibly can to ensure that the puppies are healthy, of good temperament, and free of genetic diseases is a bad breeder, IMO, whether you want to call them BYBs, a puppy mill, or whatever.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Chelsea, what you CAN do now, is to promise yourself, when asked, " Where did you get your beautiful dog?", never mention this breeders name. Do not recommend them. Do not repeat their name.
If some one mentions the name, tell them, " I would not get a dog there. Ever"
Leave it at that. Cautious on slander.
Word of mouth is a powerful tool and is the highest form of advertising.

[Jess & Stewart]

I have a question about "so-called" puppy mills, backyard breeders. I know one breeder, not of goldendoodles, but boxers where the family lives on about 10+ acres, has a "farm" where they have 2-3 horses & chickens (mostly for eggs), they have a big beautiful home, well kept.

But they do have a "warehouse" type building (it is like a garage, just constructed next to their home) where they house the dogs. It is essentially one big room (like what you'd see at a doggie day care) with toys, etc. The dogs have indoor 'kennels', which are just parts of the room sectioned off by dividers, one for each of them. They also have free access to outdoor 'kennels', space outside sectioned of with fencing & a large part of the yard sectioned off, for them to roan free & play. All the 'kennels' are open to either the inside of the building or outside, no dogs forced to be in them. They essentially had this space built on their property, because they have 10 dogs, and didn't have enough room for them all safely in their home. The dogs are in & out of their home during the days, but they do sleep in the building. It is air conditined, everything up to code. They do all health testing and clearances, im not sure of many for boxers & all puppies are socialized, given shots, deworming, they are good friends with a vet in the area & have used the vet's dog on occasion as a stud, played with daily, exercised & they only sell them to individuals that they know will care for the puppies, spay/neuter contract etc.

 

I'm just curious to see if you all would label this a "backyard breeder". I know technically they are home breeders, but they do give a lot of attention & care to the dogs, they aren't just left somewhere else on the property. They are good friends of mine & I'd hate to know they have any unethical practicies.