Loose Knee Caps- Should I worry?

[Star and Goldie]

Hi Everyone!

I searched the forums for this topic and couldn't find anything.  I apologize in advance if I missed something as I'm still learning my way around the site and the searching functions.

When I brought Goldie home 4 weeks ago I immediately took her in for a physical to comply with my warranty from the breeder. At that physical the vet mentioned that her left knee cap was more loose than normal for puppies. She said it's normal for them to be a little "loosey goosey" at that age but that Goldie's were a little more loose than expected. She marked it as "abnormal" on the puppy report card and suggested I send a copy to the breeder.

After I contacted the breeder she stated it's too early to tell anything but thanked me for letting her know.  The vet said she would keep an eye on it and I informed the breeder I would keep her in the loop.

Today Goldie had her 3rd round of puppy shots. During the physical everything went well except the loose knee cap issue. This time around she said that the right knee cap was more loose than it should be. This shocked me since the past 2 visits she has only put focus on discussing the left knee cap. Either way, the fact that anything was still loose seemed to raise her eyebrows. I asked her when we would know if it's something that she would grow out of or if it's something more permanent.  She told me she felt pretty confident in saying that this is something that she won't grow out of since she has seen it during all visits (today was the 3rd visit in 4 weeks... to me that doesn't sound like enough time to feel 'confident' in saying she won't outgrow it).  She told me that she can't move them entirely out of socket so she isn't overly concerned but that it indicates Goldie will be more prone to early arthritis. She said she doesn't see it being a big enough issue that it would result in any surgeries.

Here are my questions:

-Are loose knee caps common in doodle puppies?

-At what stage do they normally tighten up? Is it too early to be sounding this alarm?

-Even though she hasn't given an official diagnosis, if this is an actual concern would pet insurance be of use or would they consider this a 'pre-existing condition'?

-At what point should I consider a 2nd opinion?

I read over my warranty from the breeder and I can't really tell if they would be of help in this situation other than the possibility of returning Goldie which absolutely IS NOT AN OPTION!!!

Any help is welcomed! Thanks for taking the time to read this :)

[Stella]

You could try to find a canine physiotherapist/ rehabilitation specialist.  I am assuming that you are in the USA (?) so I'm not sure how they are regulated there.  In Canada you can contact the Animal Rehabilitation Division of the Canadian Physiotherapy Association to find registered members.  These are people who are already trained as "people physiotherapists" and have taken further trianing and certification to become qualified to work on dogs.  Just as with people, there are exercises that you can be taught to do with your puppy to strengthen all the muscles around the knees and work on her body awareness.  This can help to stabilise the patellas and decrease the risk of developing arthritis later in life.

[Star and Goldie]

Here is the response I got from my breeder:

"Hi Star,  For now you can keep all the Vet reports and bills, then you will have some choice going forward.

#1 if you have to put her down at a young age I will give you another puppy.  I will work with you as well if you go past the 26 months since I am aware of the issue before hand.

#2 You can mail vet bills to me and I will pay for the Vet bills pertaining to the knee caps and if a surgery can correct them.

#3 send puppy back and take replacemnt; which I understand that one would most likely be impossible.  but an option.

For now I suggest joint supplements.  You can find better quality on website that order from such as Lambert Vet Supply or Revival Animal.  They have reasonable prices as well compared to Vets or retail stores."

I'm glad she didn't rule out helping me with the cost. She could have easily found a loop hole out with the wording of the warranty. Still hoping that this doesn't turn into a major concern but it does give me at least a little piece of mind knowing that she is willing to help with the cost if it does!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I see no way supplements would be helpful.

[Star and Goldie]

That's kind of what I was thinking too. At least she was trying to be extra helpful. I was hoping someone would chime in on the supplement part since I'm not familiar with them.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

 This is exactly why good breeders are encouraged.  I applaud you breeder. I am sad for both you and her. She did the testing. She did her best and continues to do so.  Good for her.  You did your research and find a good breeder

My hopes and best wishes for you and your puppy.  That she grows healthy and happy and romps and plays.  I would not teach her to play Frisbee  :)  But I think, she can have a good life with you

I will be watching and hoping this all goes well

[Star and Goldie]

I agree, Joanne. She was very prompt in her response to me and didn't question anything. She actually even sent me another message afterwards apologizing. I told her that an apology wasn't needed. She did everything required. I am very pleased with her response and especially surprised that she is willing to go past the 26 months on the warranty since I told her well in advance of the concern. Definitely makes me feel better!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am so glad to hear of a truly responsible breeder who cares about her puppies after they are sold and is willing to do the right thing to help the owner and the dog. Bravo to your breeder, this speaks volumes about her integrity and her priorities.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

did I miss something?  did your vet say that Goldie might have to get put down at a young age?!?!?   :(

[Star and Goldie]

No she didn't say that (THANK GOD!!) I guess the breeder was just trying to think of every angle to cover which I do appreciate but yeah that's not a thought I'm going to entertain. I definitely don't think it would ever get to that

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

oh ok. you had me worried there!

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Excellent response from an obviously responsible and ethical breeder. I would expect the same of mine should the need have presented itself. This should definitely help you feel you're not alone in this and she is with you all the way.

[Erin and Ribi]

I stumbled upon this post when searching for information about luxating platella.  Our mini goldendoodle was running across the hardwood floor to greet us when she did something to her hind leg, We thought it was maybe muscle/hip related but it's been a few days now and last night when she was holding her leg up (no signs of pain, she will just hold it up and walk around on 3 legs and then put it down and run around again) I started rubbing her knee joint and felt it pop back into place. I'm fearful she may have luxating platella and I was wondering if you could update me on how Goldie is doing and if she ever had anything come of her loose knee caps? 

Thanks!!