I hate that I'm even asking this...

[Jen and Annie]

I never thought in a million years that I would consider using a prong collar, but Annie is so incredibly strong. I have tried 'stop-and-go' on our walks for her on-leash pulling, and it seems to be slowly working. If she pulls, we stop walking. She is pulling much less often, but it still happens, and we still stop when she does it. I have tried positive reinforcement when she is walking by my side. I feel like I have tried everything, and I need to get her leash walking and jumping greetings under control. I have always thought I would never use an aversive method with her, but I think I am at a loss, especially with her human greetings.
Over the past few weeks I have been researching prong collars, and I have always been against them - but mostly because they look so barbaric. From what I've read, the dog is actually the one in control of the correction for the most part, and that it is more of a 'slight pinch' than it is a stabbing into their neck. I am writing to poll the DK members on your experiences with prong collars.
I am fully committed to the time it takes for training, but no matter how much I run Annie, or try to drain her energy - she is always able to muster up enough energy to exhuberantly jump on people. She is very very stong by now, at over 70 lbs. She almost knocked over a small child at the dog park a few weeks ago, which is what prompted my research on new methods. It's like she sees the person who is LEAST capable of defending themselves against her jumping, and jumps on them. :-{
She just LOVES people. I can prevent her from jumping, just by keeping her on a short leash, but she flails and freaks out trying to get to the person to say hi, in her Annie way. She basically goes deaf and can't hear any of the "SIT! No, ANNIE! LEAVE IT!" when she wants to see someone. Once I'm able to calm her down (usually takes 2-3 minutes, and I have to physically hold my hand on her back to prevent her from continuing to flail around) she will sit and whimper for the person she wants to jump on, and I can hold her back to keep her from jumping on them, but sometimes will just give a HUGE tug and rip my arm almost out of socket to try and greet the person.
I have read that the prong collars really can be a useful tool, but I just feel so bad to put one on her...please tell me of your experiences or suggestions on the pulling on leash and jumping up on people. I know she is such a sweet girl, and I worry that using a prong collar will change her personality. She really is a doll, she just has a hard time hiding her excitement for people. Will a prong collar work to help me correct the pulling/jumping up, without changing her sweet personality ?

I really want what's best for her, but would also like to 'save' the poor people that she meets.

[Jen and Annie]

Absolutely. The collar will not be something that she wears all the time - only when we are training. I am hopeful that with consistency, she will pick it up quick. She really is a very smart dog - the smartest I've ever had, she surprises me every day with her intelligence. But when she gets excited, it's like she forgets everything she knows. Maybe I need more 'training with distraction' to condition her. She is still a puppy, at just under 10 months old. I just don't want her to grow into adulthood with the same bad habits. I know she has it in her - I just might have to use this 'tool' to help with her training. It's been positive-only since the beginning, which has worked marvelously for everything except for the greetings...

[Diana Erhart]

Charlie was the same way at times.  He would seem to just totally go beserk doing what we lovingly called the "helicopter spin".  He got a laugh out of our trainer every time.  We deemed it "puppy ADD".  Good luck!  I still after 7 years haven't mastered the greetings with Charlie.  The only thing he/we haven't been able to get....although all the blame rests with me for not persisting with it!

[a.k.a. Rodney]

I would like to add..I have been using a behaviorist( he has an MBA in animal behavior) with Derby since she was eight weeks old.
He brought over a prong collar one week, ( just as an introduction for me ) but said Derby is not ready for one and that they do not harm the dog...however, he does prefer what he calls Positive instruction...and he regards the pincher collar as a negative instrument, but one that is sometimes useful & necessary.....once all positive methods are exhausted :instruction, correction, and various harnesses & collar type accessories ....it may be a helpful tool then

[Cathy, Fozzie & Shaggy]

I don't know how others feel about them but I have used them with the help of a trainer to fit it correctly a to show me the proper way to use it. A big thing to remember with the prong collar is not to pull on it yourself. When used correctly on a dog that takes correction well it can work, it helped me. Now I almost never use it. Some dogs become angry when they feel the prongs and are denied what they want. I've seen them turn on their handler. I know I didn't give you a yes/no answer about using the prong collar...you know your dog and your level of confidence to use it correctly.
Here are a few things I've been doing with Shaggy to help with his leash manners:
*Back aways - when he pushes ahead not only do I stop but also walk backwards until he comes back to me. I use a regular 4ft leash. We do this over & over & over. But he IS getting it!
*Putting him on a down / stay when someone approaches and he starts getting excited. I will stand on the leash and wait it out until Shaggy is calm. Then try to let him up. If he gets excited he goes back in the down / stay.
*For building self control I was taught to have Shaggy on a sit / stay and hold a treat flat in my hand in front of him. If he goes for the treat close my hand but don't say anything or move my hand away. When he stops trying to get the treat, I open my hand again. Continue closing my hand if he tries to take the treat or paw at it. Open my hand when he stops. The goal is to be able to hold the treat out with the dog waiting until you say it's ok to take it. Let her have the treat when she waits patiently. The first time she may only wait a few seconds but it's a start.
I hope you're not offended by my suggests, I don't know if you've tried these things and found they didn't work but if not perhaps they might help enough to avoid the pinch collar right now......
One last thought and I'll stop :) I've worked with trainers who still use ear pinches to compel their dog to do things, trainers who don't believe in using the word NO or any other corrections with their dog, and trainers who use a blend of positive reinforcement with realistic appropriate corrections when needed. These are the trainers who seem to understand dog behaviors and communications and the ones I am most comfortable following but I also follow my own instincts about what is good or not good for my dogs. Good luck to you!!

[Jen and Annie]

I have always been a believer in positive reinforcement, because I have seen great progress with it. I can control her when she is excited to see someone - it looks rediculous, because she flails around and whines like I'm hurting her - she wants to see the person so bad that she whimpers. The problem is, that I can put her in a sit/stay when she wants to meet someone. She will do it reluctantly - BUT, she will get too excited again and break the stay, lunging forward to see the person - to which I correct again, etc. And altlhough I can do this dance over and over again, at times she ends up being rewarded for it, because she may break away enough to get a pet from the person who says " Oh, it's OK - I have dogs, and they jump up too - no big deal".
In training, I can control the situation a bit by saying "Do not pet her if she jumps" - but in the real world, it's much more difficult, because it's such a common problem - especially for dog lovers. I really don't want to resort to using it. If I do end up buying the prong, I will probably try it on my own arm or leg first, just to see how it feels before I put it on her.
I am not offended in the least on your suggestions - if it will be possible to break her of this without aversive techniques, I'm all for it. But I feel like she needs a bit of a firmer hand on this greeting situation, just based on how it's been going lately . We'll keep practicing and see...

[Adina P]

":In training, I can control the situation a bit by saying "Do not pet her if she jumps" - but in the real world, it's much more difficult..."

This is precisely why I am not a fan of training that has only positive rewards and avoids aversives: we can never control real life enough.  Distractions (excitable dog loving people, squirrels, mail carriers, cars, kids, leaves, etc) happen all the time in uncontrollable ways.  At some point the dog does have to learn to shoulder some responsibility for various actions--that some actions result in unpleasant consequences.  I have to create some of these consequences (the aversive side of training) in order to prevent worse real life consequences and trouble.  Otherwise it's always the distraction's 'fault' and thus the dog's behavior is at the whim of life's distractions.

This is just my take on training. 

[a.k.a. Rodney]

We need. A LIKE button...I'm placing one here after your message!

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

LIKE.  Also I notice that people who think that positive reinforcement and "adversives" are mutually exclusive alternatives for accomplishing the same things often lack a basic understanding of the fundamental concepts of operant conditioning.

[a.k.a. Rodney]

LIKE, not sure where you live but we could be using the same Behaviorist!!!

[Adrienne]

The prong collar can be a life saver.  My last dog, a very energetic Weimaraner used to pull, until he choked himself, when trying to greet other people and dogs.  Our obedience trainer introduced us to the prong collar and taught us how to properly use it.  It didn't take long for our dog to realize that he'd get a correction if he pulled, jumped, etc.  Our walks were so much easier and family, friends and other pet owners were amazed.  As long as you know the proper way to use it, it is A-OK.  Good luck.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Prong collars can be wonderful tools, for certain dogs and certain circumstances.  Of course you need to know what you are doing.  Also I highly recommend investing in a Herm Sprenger - they are so much better than the rest.  If you are using it properly and someone gives you a dirty look or makes a comment, they are doing you a favor by revealing their ignorance. I've tried those easy-walk type harnesses and wasn't impressed.  It seemed to me like it takes away the dog's incentive to pull while he is wearing it but doesn't do anything to help him learn not to pull or to help you and he communicate.  

[Jen and Annie]

the Herm Sprenger is the style that I was looking at.  I like that the prongs are more dull, and not sharp.