Off Leash Training....And Bully Breeds Aren't Called That For Nothing

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Now that Murph is pretty much under control (with a "slip" every now and then), we've moved to off leash training.  It's not easy because we have strict leash laws and there is really only one place appropriate for this training....it's a state owned forest area with trails and fields and dogs do not have to be leashed.  We've been going there with our trainer every week...unfortunately we're not alone.  We have our little "procedure"....we walk from the car down a path and into the main open area with the boys on leash.  We go through making sure they're calm by sitting them a few times before we actually get to the open area.  Once we're there we remove their leashes, and that's when the "off leash heel" requirements start.  There are other dogs running all around...all kinds of other dogs.  We require our guys to walk right next to us...not a formal heel...but by out side or right behind us.  Last week Guinness "broke" when he saw a Boxer and ran up to him....the dog did not like our little Dood and attacked him.  Guinness can run like the wind when he's motivated...and he did.  The Boxer never broke the skin, and Guinness was fine and stayed right with us for the rest of the morning.  Today we were back at it.  This time we focused more on Guinness (since Murph actually does great off leash).  As we were walking we saw a couple with a GSD and a Pit Bull walking toward us.  When the Pit spotted Guinness he took off toward him and aggressively went at him.  Our trainer was able to back him down and Guinness was fine.  For some reason these breeds seem to look at Guinness as a target...maybe due to his size.  There was nothing in his body language today to bring this attack on.  Interestingly after it happened Guinness (who has always walked by my side or right behind me) decided to walk with Ben (our trainer)....it was kind of like he was thinking..."you saved me...Mom was useless".  This may be more of a blog than a Training discussion, but I wanted to share it.  I've always planned to training both on and off leash.  The problem is where do you do this and still keep your dogs safe?  It's absurd to me that anyone would take a dog aggressive pit to this off leash park, but apparently that's the reality.  For now we're only going to continue this when our trainer is with us...unfortunately.  I don't have enough confidence to believe that I can keep my guys safe alone.  Is anyone else doing off leash work and how/where do you do it?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Sandy, I think it's awesome that you're starting Rally with Hattie...and even better that Theo is already starting beginning obedience.  I've already done obedience, agility, nose work, CGC, Flyball, and TDI with Guinness but I still wouldn't totally trust him in EVERY situation off leash and I really want to get there.  Murph hasn't been exposed to anywhere near as many classes as Guinness, but in some ways I think he's easier to "off leash" train than Guinness.  Murph has fears that have been the cause of his on-leash dog reactiveness.  Those same fears keep him really close to us when we take the leash off.  Last week he decided to venture off a little ways from us and a woman came down the path with three Labs who were very interested in meeting Murphy.  We kept right on walking ahead and Murph had no clue what to do next.  He was very much afraid of passing these dogs so he just froze.  He's used to being able to look to me when he's on-leash and encounters other dogs (which is what we taught him to do in order to prevent his reactions).  Luckily the owner of the Labs recognized Murph's apprehensiveness and put her three dogs in down/stays...it was a sight to behold.  I was in awe of this woman and realized that I "wanted to be her".  Murph walked past them and caught up with us and never left our side again.  Some lessons they must learn on their own.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I haven't been doing off-leash work so I don't really have anything add, but I really loved your comment "it was kind of like he was thinking..."you saved me...Mom was useless".    lol

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

More and more I find myself terrified when JD and I encounter pitbulls and similar breeds when we're out, even when they are on leash, even in places like the vet clinic. I am so sorry this happened to Guinness and to you. 

[Joanna, Zoe & Bender]

I blame the owners.  I really hate the stereotype but because of careless owners I feel that this stereotype will always stay with the breed :(

I cringe when off leash dogs approach Ben and even when we are just walking past dogs on leash because with even just a look Ben can get all riled up.  The other day we were on a hike and this guy had two beautiful Pit bulls off leash.  The weird thing about these two was that Bender barely even looked at them.  They were so regal as they walked.  I thought for sure they might walk up to Ben or Ben might freak out when he saw them but they didn't and Ben didn't freak out and stayed so calm.  Ben kept walking, the pits stayed next to their owner and walked past us.  I was truly amazed at this whole experience.  How well trained they were and how Ben seemed to feed off their really calm energy.  

[BG and Gavin]

Gavin gets lots of off-leash, though I would not by any stretch of the imagination call it work.  I have never tried to make him heel off leash (he is barely good at heeling on leash lol).  He tends to be responsive though and we test him a lot by hiding behind a tree or around the bend of the trail when he gets ahead without looking back as often as he should.  That straightens his right out. He responds to "come" and "stop" and never goes too far off the trail.  When he is off leash in an unfamiliar situation he looks at us to see what he is to do (for example if we take him in the front yard with no leash, to just put him in the car or something).  He does test limits however when there is another dog around (play opportunity).  We are lucky to be able to take him to parks where he knows his boundaries but they are not fully fence nor considered "dog parks."  He has a couple of buddies that he plays with there without the dog park drama.  At the cottage, off leash possibilities are endless, which is lucky.  I cannot imagine what makes poor Guiness a target.  He is balanced and well adjusted.  Weird.  People are ignorant though.  Which is why we do not go to dog parks.  Maybe I will try and make off leash healing a goal for the summer.

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

I am sorry that this happened to you guys..it is such a scary, helpless feeling.  These owners should not have their dogs off leash..it is just not fair.  We do our off leash training in our back yard, and we also go to a local park that has different, open field sections..we kind of "scan" the areas, and parking lots for cars, people, dogs..so we know what we're working with.  What did your trainer exactly do that made the other dog back down?  I think I would probably be "useless" too in that situation.  

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think what he did was show this Pit that he was not afraid of him.  He walked right at him, calmly (but sternly) said "NO".  When he got right up to him he told the dog to sit....the dog had a look on his face like he was thinking..."woo, this guy means it and he looks stronger than I am".  He actually backed off and sat.  That's about the time when the owner got there....he proceeded to scream at the dog but never leashed him.  We kept moving in the other direction.  The dog was definitely aggressive....growling, showing teeth....a couple more seconds and he would have bitten him.

[Kyoko]

When I take my dogs to the local county park, I let them off leash in the remote area. I am constantly scanning to make sure that there are no other dogs approaching the area. Charlie and Pinot Grigio have excellent recall, so I was very confident about this. They play fetch and chase each other and have great time together since it is much bigger area than my yard. Especially when there were man made snow left on the ski slope, they really enjoyed it. However, the other day, Charlie spotted two deer in the distance. I saw them looking at each other eye to eye.... When the deer decided to take off, I was hoping that Charlie will remain standing. But, she took off right behind them full speed, and needless to say Pinot Grigio followed. I was totally scared, I thought they will be stumped or kicked to death by the deer...!! 

Thankfully, by the second call / command, they both turned back around and came right back to me.

This experience told me that Charlie is really not commited to me even in the remote area... Because any distraction can still happen, and when it does, her reactiveness perks up and she is done. I thought I was monitoring well, but if she spot the distraction before me, then it is no good.... I hope one day, I will be so important to her that she can ignore all of the other distractions....  I am not so sure if this will ever happen, but we have to keep or stake high!! LOL

So sorry that Guinness was attacked... I am glad that he was OK.

[Traz, Karen & Dale]

Jane, I'm sorry to hear about this experience with your sweet boys.  We stopped going to dog parks several months ago because Traz was attacked twice, on separate occasions, by unruly dogs.  On the last go, my husband was bitten by the dog that was going after Traz when he grabbed at his collar to pull him away from Traz.

We too, are working on Traz's recall so that he can be off his leash.  It's not going really well.  We went to our first doodle romp last month and decided to let Traz off his leash.  Our thinking was...he'll stay with the Doodles.  Wrong!  Traz decided to go after some other dogs on the beach and we spent most of the day chasing him down.  I was so worried that he was going to get attacked by dogs that he approached that we have decided NOT to even do doodle romps until we have his recall situation under control.  He will come when we are in our backyard and house, but when there are distractions, it's another story.  We are now taking him to the dog park, but not going inside.  We tie his training leash to a nearby tree and call him.  We figured that if we practiced where he can see the other dogs and people, but not get to them, that he "might" get the concept that he needs to come to us.  We would LOVE to be able to walk with him off leash and perhaps, some day, we might.  In the meantime, his safety and ours is the first priority.  Good luck with your training! You've been through so much with your boys that I know you will prevail...hopefully sooner than later.

[Donna K & Quincy]

Jane, I am so sorry that this happened but so thankful that no one was hurt. We do lots of off leash time with Quincy and so far we've had no issues while he's been unleashed. The problems have been when Quincy was leashed and the other dogs have not been. A couple of times when other dogs have been aggressive toward Quincy and both times it has been while Quincy was leashed and the other dogs were not. He actually ended up with a small tear in his ear the last time when he was attacked by a Bull Mastiff and a Pit. DH had Quincy's leash and a set of skis in his hand so he was able to protect them. I found myself backing up a Pit with a pair of skis and believe me I would have used them as weapons if I had too. The dogs owner came and leashed the dogs and without as much as I'm sorry or a backward glance moved on. The sad part is this happened at the area we always have gone to play ball and walk Quincy off leash and it was the perfect place. There is now a new highway that goes by and has opened up the area and our secret is out and the area is ruined for us. I no longer take Quincy there when I am alone. The other incident happened with an Akita, Quincy was off leash but we leash him up when we see strange dogs approaching, the Akita walked up as nice as you please and snapped at Quincy's face with no warning. The owner's response, "he won't bite, he always does that to our small dog but he's never bitten her".... really, I think it's just a matter of time. 

[Pat and Traveler]

Just amazing, Jane!  You are my hero.  It almost brings a tear to my eye, thinking of you and Murph walking off leash.  What a magnificent goal to have accomplished!

It's so irritating and scary to think that there are aggressive dogs out there, off leash.  Poor Guinness--good thing he's quick.  I don't know of anywhere safe for a well-mannered, off-leash dog.  Really, my only fear is other off-leash dogs--and they are all around.

Trav is off leash in the local park almost every time we go there.  But I scan constantly for dogs and leash him up as soon as I see another dog.

I was scared at our indoor dog park a few months ago.  I'd only been there for doodle romps and at off times, but this time we went at about 10 a.m. on a weekday, which must be prime time for daycare dogs.  You can't see the area because you enter through a hallway.  Once inside, I realized there we were in the midst of about 30 big dogs, all very interested in Trav.  There was one worker there, but she was far away and busy.  Trav was right beside me, pressed against me sometimes, growling when the press of dogs got too close.  I walked partway across the room, then headed for the gate to get the @###@ out of there.  Both of us were scared.  All these dogs had been tested for compatibility with other dogs, but there were so many of them, and they were all around us!  I sure wasn't projecting calm, positive energy! 

 

[charlotte bednarsh]

We live in Lower Manhattan and there are a few dog parks which are fenced in, so I feel comfortable taking Paz; however, there has been a huge increase in the pit bull population, and I get nervous when a pit enters the dog park; my experience is they always seem to go after Paz, usually because he has a ball in his mouth, and the pit appear determined to get the ball.  My experience has been the pits go from play to aggression very rapidly, and I've already had two bad experiences where Paz almost got hurt.  Now, if a I see a pitbull  entering the dog park, I'll nicely ask the owner to wait until I get Paz, and I will immediately leave.  I'm just not willing to risk a confrontation, because Paz would never stand a chance against a pit.  I know this probably sounds prejudice, it's just that pits make me nervous; Paz's trainer explained the way in which pits and rotweillers approach is often confrontational to many dogs, so I really am working on telling Paz to "look" at me when they are approaching.  I usually try to provide lots of distance which is often difficult because NYC streets can be narrow.  Paz generally likes most dogs, but he has reacted negatively to pits and rotweillers, and occasionally boxers, so the command look at me is something I practice a lot.  My understanding is that on city streets, dogs are approaching each other head on, so to speak, and that is where an approaching dog like a pit can be problematic, particularly when the owner appears to be holding onto the dog for dear life!