Proper Socialization

[Kacie Hollander]

This weekend I took our 15 week old puppy, Macy to a "Puppy Play Date" at a local dog training facility.  It was a big room with 15 - 20 puppies ranging in age from 8 weeks to 15 weeks.  There were 4 or 5 dog trainers mixed in with the puppies to watch for behavior issues.  Macy ignored all the other puppies the first half, and the second half she was aggressively fighting with any dog that tried to play with her.  It was very upsetting to watch because I've never seen her look so aggressive.  She was having nipping issues a few weeks ago with us but we set up a "time out" spot and the nipping is basically over (thank goodness!!).

It seems to me that Macy doesn't know how to play with other dogs.  She's been around grown dogs and it's always fine, but never really plays with them.

The trainer wants us to bring Macy back again next weekend, but I'm afraid that it's just encouraging poor behavior.  Thoughts?  Does she really need to be able to play with other puppies?  Or just older dogs that are calmer?

[Sara and Birdie]

I don't have any suggestions for you, my Birdie is 17 weeks and I am wondering the same thing.  I take her on a lot of walks and have her meet other dogs, but I don't know what I should let her be doing.  She seems to want to chase and nip at the other dogs and I don't know if it will go away on its own, or how to correct it.

[Kacie Hollander]

I don't have any updated photos of Macy on my page yet, but she looks a lot like your Birdie!  I love the shaggy coats :)

[Bob Johnston]

I would take macy back and If you are aloud take some video of her interacting with the other puppies. What may look like aggressiveness to you may just be a puppy playing or testing other to see who is the alpha of the group. If it was truly bad the trainers would have stepped in and removed macy from the group.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

I agree and I think the video is a good idea.  I was thinking that too - if this was really aggression, I don't think they would be so casual about it.  I feel like this could be more in the category of young pups learning about dominance and submission.  Of course there's no way to say for sure without seeing it.

[Katrine]

The first time we took Stella to a social she was really aggressive as well, but it has passed and she does love to play with other dogs that want to play. I'm not a trainer, but it's a really good idea to continue to socialize Macy so that you can have her around other dogs as she gets older. Definitely discuss your concern with the trainers.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

This comes up over and over and over on here.  Proper socialization during the earlier fear period is one of the most important things for a puppy.  Probably THE MOST IMPORTANT.  

It's impossible to know what is going on without seeing it in real life, but here are a couple of things that occur to me from reading this post:

Are you certain she was being aggressive? What specifically was she doing?  I have seen a lot of people misinterpret puppy socialization such as mouthing, play growling, etc. as aggression.  Did the trainer use the word aggression?

I personally am not a big fan of training classes, but I do think it's better than nothing.  Mostly it's an opportunity for the puppy to get some socialization and for you to ask questions and learn.  As far as trainers, most are not so great, others are very good - but if you do not have a lot of experience yourself, then even a not-so-great one might be able to give you some good information.  I would say that as Macy's "parent", use your judgment to determine if you feel comfortable with this person - the same as you might with a school teacher of a human child.  You don't necessarily know everything they will cover in class, but you can judge whether they are alert, articulate, ethical, etc. - and in general whether they are the right fit for you and your child.  If you feel comfortable with the trainer, be critical, ask questions - but take his or her advice and do the work they suggest.  If you do not feel comfortable, find someone else.

Please keep in mind that nipping and aggression are very different.  Nipping is a normal, healthy and all around good activity for puppies (even if it's inconvenient for us) because that is how they learn to control their mouths and how NOT to be aggressive later on.  Aggression is a bad thing, and if that is what you really have, a class is not the solution.  You will need intensive instruction, rehabilitation, etc. with an expert in these matters, probably in a private setting.  Although others might, I don't like to use the word "trainer" in this context.  I think of training as obedience and other behaviors - sit, come, etc.  Things like aggression are more a matter of rehabilitation and psychology.

SOCIALIZATION MEANS BEING EXPOSED TO AND THEREBY BECOMING COMFORTABLE WITH A VAST RANGE OF THINGS, MOST OF WHICH THE DOG WILL NOT INITIALLY BE COMFORTABLE WITH.  THE MORE THE BETTER.  IT'S NOT SOCIALIZATION IF YOU ONLY EXPOSE THE DOG TO THINGS IT IS ALWAYS OKAY WITH.  I say this in all caps because it is so critically important.  I don't just means dogs of different ages, either - but all sorts of things. People all all different shapes, sizes, colors and smells; horses, cats, bears, fish and other animals; cars, trains, busses, planes, helicopters, motorcycles and other vehicles; loud music, fireworks, cars backfiring, thunder and other loud noises; showers, baths, lakes, ponds, oceans, rain and other types of water; skateboards, bikes, strollers, rollerblades, shopping carts, wheelchairs and other things that roll; and television, stereo, vacuum cleaner, blender, coffee grinder, doorbell, microwave timers, alarm clock, electric toothbrush and other things around the house. I'm sure there are a million more - but you get the ideal.  If the dog is not comfortable with something, avoiding it is the worst thing you can do.  You have to teach them how to become comfortable with it.  After a while the dog will understand that process and learn to become comfortable with new things on their own.

The fact of life is that your dog will need to know how to deal with dogs that are not so well adjusted, but those are easy to find.  To the extent you can find dogs of any age that are well-adjusted, take advantage of that by letting them teach your puppy.

[Kacie Hollander]

Thank you all for your responses, they are extremely helpful!!!

To answer some of your questions, the trainer did use the work aggressive.  What I witnessed was the few times Macy would go up to another puppy to "play" she would pin them down and try to sit or stand on top of them.  They would start to growl and then there would be a brawl. Nasty growling, showing teeth, the whole thing.  One of the trainers said Macy's aggression switch turns on really easily and quickly.

We are going to her first puppy class tomorrow.  We'll see how she interacts with those dogs there, since they aren't all puppies and there won't be more than 8 she might act differently.  I'm thinking at this point we should take her back to the puppy social next weekend and try again.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I wonder if she was overwhelmed by the second half and just plain protecting herself (in her mind). I also wonder if 15 - 20 puppies all together isn't a bit much. We socialized Ned - a lot, and in many ways, but one of them wasn't a huge class of other unruly puppies.

[Kacie Hollander]

Tonight Macy had her first puppy class.  The puppies didn't interact with each other during the class, but afterwards I talked to the trainer about what happened last weekend.  She asked if she could watch Macy play with a 1 year old big black lab.  They played, and it was great!  No aggression at all.  The trainer said Macy is just a pretty rough player and she was probably just too rough for the young pups.  She also suggested we try again this weekend since Macy needs to learn how to play with different types of dogs.

I'm so just relieved that I finally got to see Macy play nice with another dog!  They are SO adorable romping around :)

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Yay for Macy!

[Mindy Rapp]

I have a 3 1/2 month old goldendoodle puppy and a 2 year old shih tzu mix that weighs 8.5 lbs.  When we first brought Doodle home, they didn't interact very much at all then one morning, Snooki decided she wanted to play.  She jumped on Doddle and they have been play wrestling and chasing each other ever since.  I'm worried that Snooki will get hurt becuase Doodle is so much bigger.  I watch them to make sure it doesn't get too rough and Snooki doesn't cry or growl.  When they get out of hand, I separate them and make them lay down for a minute and take a break.  I also try to get them to play more with toys, but they always want the same toy.  Any suggestions on how I can make sure they're playing safely together?  Does anyone have or had a doodle puppy with a smaller dog?  I will attach a picture so you can see the size of them right now. 

[Hua]

Socialization early on is extremely important.  I've been taking Charlie (almost 3 months old now) to puppy class since he was 10 weeks 3 times a week.  The classes are free and they usually have 10 to 15 puppies there, and it was a good way to get him socialized with different dogs.  I noticed that the trainers usually kept the play session short (couple minutes max) because it's easy for puppies to get over excited and start playing too rough.  It always goes play session --> calm down period/trainer teach some basics/commands/etc --> play session --> calm down period --> repeat.  I found it works great.  My little guy is very good with other dogs and people.