Crate Training Woes

[Jeff and Laura McCanlies]

Hi Everybody!  

I wanted to touch on this topic again briefly.  Hazel is starting to revolt against her crate.  She just turned 4 months and has never really taken well to it, but it is getting worse.  Here are our two problems:

1.)  When we go to work we don't leave her more than 4 hours.  I come home at lunch to make sure she gets love, a potty break and some food.  But while we are gone she has severe separation anxiety.  She pants uncontrollably soaking her towel along with her beard and front paws.  We leave a little water in there with her, but she knocks it over while she is jumping around like a crazed animal.  (I have a doggie cam that I can watch her do this, although I can't watch too long).  When we let her out she goes straight for her water bowl in the kitchen and drinks tons before we go outside to potty.  We've tried covering the crate, giving her toys she won't choke or destroy and even Christian pop music (my mother in law's choice after she thought my choice of NPR wasn't appropriate).  We would love it if she just chilled out while we were gone, but that isn't happening most of the time.

2.)  At night, she knows it's bedtime and goes into the crate without hassle and lays down to sleep.  This part is good.  But at 4:10am (like clockwork, freaking dog can tell time!) she starts to whine and bark to tell us she needs to potty.  We are cool with that.  Her bladder is the size of a walnut and I understand that need to pee. So she goes out, pees everytime within a minute or two, but when we bring her back in and put her in the crate, she wants nothing to do with it.  She will bark and jump around the cage, again like a crazed animal.  We don't want to "give in" and let her out, but have done it out of sheer exhaustion a couple times.  The cage is in our room at the foot of our bed so she can feel like she is still in a pack.  The vet said to put it in the laundry room or another place far away, but that seems like it would make the situation worse. 

So that is the quick and dirty.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Other than this issue Hazel is a sweety and is learning to sit, lay down, heel and fetch pretty well.  But the sleep deprevation and worrying about her during the day is wearing us down. 

[Tammy and Violet]

is she getting tons of play,running and what not every day ?I bought a water bowel you can screw on the inside of the crate to drink from that  they dont tip over  I  find with Violet ,at night I put her in her own room to sleep ...make sure it is cool and really dark....she has done great ,when I get her up in the morning  she is not ready to get up .I would love for her to sleep with me one day ?! We shall see ..good luck on the crate thing... mine did not seem to mind it...always offer a treat to get her in there ....

[Anita - Thunder, Noodle, Sparky]

Oh you poor thing! It must break your heart watching her. You have already tried my suggestions. There are calming collars or thunder shirts that also help with anxiety. If you have Direct TV, DogTV is really great. I recorded some of the shows while it was free. The relaxation series are good for me and the dogs!

[Mindy Rapp]

Mine stays in a crate while I'm at work.  I have someone come and let her out in the middle of the day so she's not cooped up in there too long.  She doesn't want me to put her in there in the mornings.  She will try to run from me.  I usually have to pick her up and carry her which I can still do now, but won't be able to forever.  I put her dry food in her kong and cover the end with peanut butter that has stated getting her excited.  She's usually just laying in there when I come home so she doesn't seem like she minds it to much once you get her in there. 

At night she sleeps in there in my room and she does pretty good.  She makes a lot of noise rolling around and playing, but she doesn't cry.  On the weekends, she gets up early and I take her out and let her get a drink and then put her back in for a while so I can get a little more sleep. 

How big is your crate?  I had her in a smaller one at first and she freaked out in there and even got out of it once, so now she has a large one with plenty of room and she does much better. 

Doodle is 4 months also now. 

[KLN]

First off, so sorry! It sounds like things are a bit rough at your house. The puppy stage can be exhausting and I work too and putting Finn (he's six months now) in his crate is heartbreaking, I cannot imagine your situation, it would break my heart even more, so sorry! :(. This might not be an option but have you looked into doggie daycare? A day of two a week might exhaust him to the point that he will go in and sleep without hesitation. I searched for one around me and couldn't find one until someone recommended petsmart...no way was I leaving my dog at petsmart but I was desperate so I toured the facility. I couldn't believe it but it was nicer than any daycare I had ever used. The staff is so friendly and good with the dogs and Finley comes home EXHAUSTED! Exhaustion is the key with puppies and some take more to get there than others.

You might also look into the thunder jacket. They are supposed to help with anxiety. My vet says they either do or don't work, it just depends on your dog.

Would you be open to letting her sleep in bed with you? I started letting Finn sleep with me early on because I felt bad he was crated during the day (I do what you do, come home at lunch for a while) and then also being crated at night. It might not make a difference but thought I'd throw it out there...I'm trying to think of anything that might help!

The last resort (I know this may not be popular) might be medication? If its as bad as it sounds, he may need to take something on days you are gone. I know it's not ideal but it's maybe the less of two evils....the poor dood has herself worked up everyday, medication might help.

Good luck and keep us posted. I really hope it gets better soon!

[Vivian & Mojo]

I agree on create size, my doodle likes to stretch out and he was restless in a create for his size so I got a larger on and he does fine when I leave him for a few hours. For nite I have him in an x-pen right outside of my bedroom. Inside is his bed and a safe toy. I always give him a treat before going in the create or pen and he seems happy because he really stretches out and is more comfortable with the extra room..  There are some products on the market I have used to calm him when he gets excited when guests come to the door. Rescue remedy for dogs, its a flower essence and I use the one for humans on myself it works. Also some homeopathic remedies for dogs, I used one called calm when I brought my puppy home and it also works well. Good luck with Hazel.

[Linda, Charlie Brown and Beau]

Hi Jeff & Laura ~ I can feel your pain.  Have you thought of putting the crate in an X-pen, so she has more room.  You could then put some toys and things to chew on in the x pen and leave the door to the crate open.  My boys are 2.5 and 1 yr now, but they did not like the crates because they were just too hot.  They never wanted a blanket or mat in them from day one!  I do think it is very difficult for a puppy to be locked up for 4 hours several times a times a day.  They do sleep a lot, but they also get bored.  She might benefit by going to doggie day care 2 days a week, or something - if that is a possibility.

You will get through this period - it is tough.  Hang in there!

 

[Missy]

oh I feel for you!!

I don't know if this will work for you but I started out with special treats that he got only when he went into the crate.  I started with small increments of time, and worked up to the 6 hour mark. I make sure he has pottied and that he was tired, ie starting to lay around on the floor or couch, and that was my sign that it was crate time.

I put him in there with the treat and close the door and walk away. of course I always tell him when I will be back. and the first week, it was hard to NOT go back with the barking/crying, but it only lasted 8 minutes, and now, he is pretty good.

so maybe working with Hazel and building her confidence with the crate. ie. the crate is a good thing-good treats when I stay in there concept.  and the separation thing can only be built upon I think. small time slots, until she gets used to the fact that you are coming back EVERY time.

maybe on weekends you could try small time outs in the crate with you in the house, and work your way up to 4 hours.

I only hope you the best success, because I know lack of sleep makes everyone unhappy!!

[KLN]

I do treats as well, and like missy, really good ones. ;0). I say "let's go nighty nite" and he runs right in (wanting that treat!). Missy hits on a good point...they need to be really tired when they go in. When Finn was a small puppy, I got up every morning at 6am and played hard with him until 8, then gave him a veggie chew to keep him from falling asleep while I showered so he was exhausted by the time he went into his crate. Is hazel getting a lot of exercise in the mornings? Is she worn out by the time you put her in? That might make a difference but if she is truly suffering from separation anxiety there might not be much you can do except medication...I just don't know, that's a vet question.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I didn't read all the other responses yet so forgive me if I repeat but here are a few things:  Does she have a snuggle puppy?  AnnaBelle is 5 months and still loves her snuggle puppy.  She tries to bring him out of the crate all day, but I take him and put him back.  That's the only time she gets him.  Find a special go to treat .... something really yummy that she only gets at crate time.  Feed her in her crate.  Move the bedroom crate to your side of the bed if possible where you can just drop you hand down and comfort her and she can see you as well.

[Sharae & Winston]

You mentioned that when you come home to let her out how you give her "love" as well as let her out etc... We were taught that you should refrain from giving a lot of attention or love when they are coming out of the crate because they associate that with.. Well, coming out of the crate lol. Instead focus on giving lots of love and praise as she's going in and while shes in it (and quiet, of course). Also make sure she's getting a yummy treat or two plus a kong filled with some peanut butter (or other doggy goodness) so she associates the crate with getting treats and has something to do We never really had any issues with our pup and the crate so I would recommend trying that!

[Jolene, Sassparilla & Josie]

This may not be the right answer but it worked for me.  My Sassparilla also has severe separation anxiety and HATES the crate so I gave up on it and just laid her doggie bed in a corner of my room and she slept the nights through peacefully we can even sleep in "late" in the mornings now without the fussing.  While I'm at work, I don't have the priviledge of coming home at lunch so I put a doggie door in and have a gate up confining her/them to the back room and backyard.  I do come home to destruction on occasion but not as badly as in the past (although I think our other dog Josie is the terror?!?)

You have to do what works for you and your dog, I did try the Anxiety Wrap (like the thundershirt but less bulk) and it worked, actually it worked too well she was comotose in it and I hated leaving her all day in that state of mind.  As mentioned in another discussion if it's bad you may want to consider medication.  With a daughter with learning disabilites who came home from school after starting the medication and said mommy mommy my brain works and showed me the first picture she had ever colored "IN' the lines (age 5) I quickly learned you have to get away of the stigma of "medicating".  If it works and makes your puppy calm and at peace you have to do whats best for you furbaby. My vet discussed medicating but with her heart murmur we have not yet pursued that option. 

I would love a doggie cam to see what these two are up to when I'm gone?  My mother spends the days with them and for the most part they sleep the day away but as the hours get closer to me coming home they both get anxious and upon my arrival I am promptly greated with a toy or ball and we spend the rest of the evening playing together (in between dog parks, dog beach and walks).

As they grow up most things do get better and others you find what works best for your situation.  Best of luck, look at it this way they love you so much that hate to be apart from you!   Now if I can only find a man that smittened by me! lol

[Jeff and Laura McCanlies]

Thanks everybody for the replies.  Some of the suggestions we have tried and others we haven't.  In the short term, I think we are going to try and feed her in there at least once a day to remind her that it is safe in there.  Also, we couldn't start doggy day care until last week since they require them to be 4 months old so we are going to evaluate a couple tomorrow.  I think a couple half days a week will get her wore out enough to sleep a bit better.  Finally, although she is typically in the crate for about 4 hours during the day, we are going to put her in there periodically for about 20 minutes when we are home and know all she wants to do is sleep. 

 

Hopefully this is just a phase since we feel like we didn't spend enough time training her to accept the crate when she was a little younger.  We are learning all this training stuff daily and feel like failures sometimes, but accept that we are new to this and mistakes will be made.  On a good note, she can sit, lay down and hold for her dinner really well!