Food --- Grain free or Grains????

[NS]

Hi again!! I am still in search of the perfect food for Bodi. As you know, Giardia 4x, bacterial imbalance 1x -- Panacur + Metro multiple times. A month ago his stools was formed, soft but had mucous. I took it to the vet. They said there was no parasite but that the mucous indicated bad flora in his gut. They suggested a probiotic, Proviable DC or Tylan. Bodi had been taking Proviable + Gentle Digest for 4 months so we opted for the Tylan. He took the Tylan 2x a day for 7 days -- he didn't have any marked improvement. The vet thinks his stool is soft because the food might be too rich for him. He was on TOTW, FROMM, Honest kitchen, Orijen and now she wants me to try a limited ingredient food. I came home with California Natural because I wonder if perhaps he needs grain in his diet and that might be the missing link. The foods I have fed him to date have been grain free. What do you think? I was torn between purchasing InstinctLimited Ingredients but ended up with California Natural because it is a limited ingredient with some grains...

All thoughts and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[Fitz & Henry]

Is his Giardia completely gone? We have had a nightmare with our puppy, which sounds similar to yours and we once got a fecal test back that said he was cleared - we were soooo thrilled. but the stools did not harden. The Vey said it could be an overgrowth of bacteria from all the Metro etc...then tried the probiotics, and than Tylan powder and RX clay to firm the stools, but there was no improvement. The vet wanted us to change the food... And I said before we do that, I want you to run another fecal at a lab not just an ELISA snap test.... And sure enough.... Still has the Giardia!
It's soooo upsetting, we have a crazy drug resistant strain and I'm losing my mind.... My poor pup hasn't had a normal poop as long as we've had him. How long has this been going on with you?

[NS]

What is your email address. I can share our journey with you.

[Fitz & Henry]

We definitely need to chat... I'm freaking out a tad bit here, This is crazy but I too am in Chicago & I think we got our puppies at the same place! My puppy is younger than yours Im guessing, but is also red!
I'd really like to speak with you even more now about the Giardia.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can tell you that there is a popular large doodle breeder in the Pacific NW whose dogs carry an antibiotic resistant strain of giardia. Many members here who bought dogs from this breeder have had this problem. 

[Fitz & Henry]

Does it ever go away? Or actually get cleared up?? All I care about is that I have a healthy dog.
How do you find those other members who have had the same problem? Do you know any of them by chance??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Many have posted here in TFG over the past year or two. The breeder's group here also has comments from some of them. 

The giardia itself can eventually be cleared up with the right treatment, which MUST include Panacur, but the effects of the treatment can often cause lasting digestive issues. It's very important to use a good probiotic. You do not want repeated courses of metronidazole for any dog, let alone a puppy. 

[Fitz & Henry]

I know this has been beyond challenging for us, and he has been on repeated rounds of metro and that makes me nervous. We have done both metro & Pancur at least 3x we have also done a drug called Tinidizole, and that did nothing. He is now again on metro & Pancur and my puppy is only 6.5 months old.
I'd love to get in touch with others who had similar issues and see if their dogs ever really cleared the Giardia. I've now been told that you need to have 3 consecutive tests that are all negative for it to be accurate.
I've lived thru 1 false negative so I believe that to be true.

I wonder if this particular NW breeder has ever gotten a good slap on the wrist??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's not much anyone can do. The excuses are "all dogs have it in their systems" (untrue), "they get it from their mothers", "it's impossible to prevent it in a wet environment", etc. 

The fact is, they get it from being allowed outdoors in areas where adult dogs other than their mothers have access, along with wild animals, and where they are unsupervised outdoors where they have access to standing water of any kind. They get it from unhygienic environments. If the mothers bring it in on their feet into the litter box, etc. Once one puppy has it, it spreads.

The bigger the breeding "operation", the more likely it is. Nobody can supervise more than one littter outdoors at a time, let alone a bunch of adult dogs, too. Picking up the poop immediately is another issue. When you have an enclosed outdoor area that nobody uses other than the one litter and their mother, with no standing water, and you clean it up immediately, the puppies don't get giardia. Period. 

I never heard of giardia before i started participating in doodle forums, and I have had dogs, and fosters all my life. But all of my previous dogs were from breeders who were not breeding solely to sell puppies, and therefore could concentrate on one litter at a time. 

[Fitz & Henry]

I've seen this site.... Unfortunately I saw it after we had gotten our puppy.
I still would like to figure out how to locate other people on this site who have had similar situations.
Would you start a new discussion topic? Or what's the best way to locate people... I'm new to this site.
But boy I'm getting all fired up! : )

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You cannot mention the breeder's name publicly in the discussion forum.

But the breeder has a group here. Go to groups and enter the name. You will see all of the other people here on DK who bought puppies and you can read through the comment section and see those who have talked about giardia. 

[NS]

Karen what are you thoughts on the product by Honest Kitchen called "PERFECT FORM"? As you know I have tried it all -- FIRM UP, pumpkin, sweet potato, probiotics etc. and nothing has really made a difference.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You can give it a try, it probably won't hurt, but it's doubtful that it will do much good, either.

I know it's hard, but it takes a lot of patience to work through these digestive issues. Improvements can take weeks or months, and it's really, really important not to keep changing things, trying new things, etc. As we have mentioned before, all that metronidazole did a number on his gut bacteria, and it's going to take time to get it back in balance. It's imperative that you continue the probiotics and don't make more than one change at a time.