roundworms

[Emily, Jace, & Maggie Devers]

I thought we had maybe dodged a bullet with Maggie but no luck, we have worms. :( I treated Maggie with safeguard(panacur) on Sunday for three days as a precaution and her stool has been normal, a little on the soft side every now and then but for the most part normal, and last night it was normal but something looked off so I looked closer and what do you know, there were about two or three worms in it, and when she went last night there were a couple more, still normal though. They weren't moving so I'm assuming they're dead... This morning she went and it had no worms in it that I could see... And those are pretty noticeable. But I've cleaned up the yard really good, and sprayed bleach where she had went in hopes of killing any larvae, and I'm wiping her butt and paws along with jaces paws when we come in now. I know the bleach thing may be a little drastic and may not even help but if dead grass is the cost for my peace of mind that's okay. Am I doing anything wrong, she's sleeping in her bed right now but once we get up for the day I'm washing it. Do I need to wash her stuffed toys and bleach her rubber ones? Also, I'm going to follow up treat her in two weeks just to deal with anything she may have recaught, and then after that how soon can she be given heartgard for prevention? Her mood and eating is normal, and her energy level is as wild as ever!:) I can tell she doesn't feel bad but I notice now how her belly was bloated before, since it's went down now. :P.. Ah, the joys of puppyhood......

[Dori Shults]

Ya know I just joined the group and didn't realize that maybe I should keep my ideas of natural rearing to myself if I wasn't pushing them on other people. It was a suggestion, can't hurt anyone and is healthy no matter how you look at it.  I am talking from experience with MANY animals and with the blessing of ALL my vets which I have 4. I'll just not continue with this stuff, I've got way to many things to do than to waste time on this type of thing.

BTW  They contain an amino acid called cucurbitin, which weakens intestinal worms. With repeated doses, worms die off and are expelled from the body. Evidence suggests that dogs can eat pumpkin seeds without side effects or interactions with other medications they may be taking.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Dori -  As an owner of a dog with certain health issues I do not give him any type of treatments that are not recommended by my vet or approved by him.  Making the statement: " Evidence suggests that dogs can eat pumpkin seeds without side effects or  interactions with other medications they may be taking."  without reliable references can put a dogs life in jeopardy if relied upon by an owner.  Can you tell me that the pumpkin seeds will not interfere with my dogs anti-seizure medications or the various medications many dogs on this forum are on?

Sorry but you are not acting responsibly!!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I just looked at the Wikipedia article on cucurbitin and it is interesting. It does suggest some anti flatworm activity but says nothing about roundworms. We are all willing to learn here, Dori. But we do like facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbitin

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Right, there is some evidence that a substance in the seeds themselves can help reduce the numbers of worms in domestic livestock: http://www.desu.edu/sites/default/files/Pumpkin%20Seeds-Worms_DJO.pdf

But as we know, the digestive systems of ruminants are very different from those of dogs. Dogs cannot digest raw plant materials, so any vitamins or antioxidants would be of no value to dogs anyway. And there is no evidence that any part of the pumpkin other than the seeds has an effect on worms. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

I read somewhere just before that the seeds should be powdered and given three times daily etc. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

So the whole seeds in raw pumpkin would do nothing, they'd pass right out in the stool.

I don't know where you could even get whole raw pumpkin year round, anyway. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

I suppose you could freeze pumpkin seeds and that might work but all in all it is work. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

KOW, JD has never had worms, but I'll stick with the Panacur, seems a lot surer and simpler. 

[Dori Shults]

I thought about this over night and my first thought is I'm not going to be bullied off the list. for my opinions. Second you are correct, all my animals are healthy, if I had a sick animal, I would probably be more concerned myself before making any changes. I don't see any problem with making suggestions in alternative methods of treating problems in dogs or any other animal. As far as me not acting responsible, it's up to the owner to take responsibility to make what decision he or she wants for their animal. It's not information that causes the problem. I may raise my animal different than some, but they are all healthy and live lives extended way beyond they breed normal. My Great Danes lived to 12 and I have a rescue now at 10 that acts like a pup. I have not made comments on posts on the internet, I am making comments based on experience, 63 years of experience. If you have a mind set that everything has to be backed up by numbers, then yes you may have problems with anyone that feels the proof is in the pudding. I gleen what I can off the internet, I use what I'm comfortable with, I check with my vets, and I make the decision as to what I will do with my animals as I did with my kids. I didn't throw drugs at my kids when I was raising them either. If there was a reason to do so, I did, if it was generic and will give this a try, I thought twice. Now you see where people are much more concerned about vaccines, antibiotics ect. It's the same with animals. I use food grade DE for fleas too and have never ever had a problem with fleas, ticks or any critters on my sheep,chickens or angora goats. So that's my story and I'm sticking with it! I will continue to make suggestions and not preach. I'm hoping most people on the list are not so narrow minded and will make the decision for their animal after weighing what information they have gathered and they are comfortable with. I would suggest holistic vets too, they practice both types of meds and accupunture. So I guess if that's not good enough, then you can boot me off the list and I will be better off for it! :)

[F, Calla & Luca]

No one is trying to bully you nor kick you off any list. I am a physician so my take on things if often from the perspective of traditional medicine but I am open to alternatives and take supplements and things when studies have been shown to be a good idea. I am even older than you so I have lots of experience too : ) I don't think saying you were acting irresponsibly was fair. But I do temper all my comments that are not backed by scientific fact by saying that it's my opinion, or suggesting that people check with their vet before implementing things. We will give our opinions and  debate things and check them if something new or possibly controversial shows up. I personally think that is a good thing. I have learned a lot on DK. My dogs would not likely  be on Evening Primrose oil now if I hadn't read about it here. So you are welcome here, we want to learn and I hope you do too. In the end we are all responsible for our own health and that of our animals.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree. Disagreeing with someone is not "bullying".

For me, the nice thing about facts is that they are impartial and proveable. Anecdotal stories from strangers on the internet are not. 

[Dori Shults]

Actually it could be how you disagr