Help finding a mini Labradoodle - worried about red flags

[Elaine Uomini]

Finally, after much reading about Labradoodles, the time has come to choose a breeder and put in a deposit for a Spring puppy.  But I am still hesitant and confused.  I live in Santa Barbara, CA and have yet to find a breeder of mini  Labradoodles very close to us.  Some breeders on my short list live about a day’s drive away, okay for picking up a puppy, but not conducive to many home visits.  However, even some breeders on my short list, in spite of glowing testimonials and photos of puppies that fill my heart with love and joy, seem to have a few red flags.  I need help sorting these out.  Should I eliminate breeders from my short list if they do these things?

1. Spay or neuter at 8 weeks.  Our two rescued kittens, Rosie and Puffin, had this done to them, and they are now 6-year-old healthy cats.  The Rescue cat lady said that the new micro surgical techniques made this possible.   But of course, they are cats, not dogs.
2. I know this is a whole can of worms, but I read a couple of posts from a few years ago on Doodlekisses about Rutland Manor.  If a breeder mentions Rutland Manor as good thing in her “about us” section is that a red flag?   Even though she health tests all current mother and father dogs, is this a problem?
3. Many of the breeders use guardian homes so that every dog gets to have a loving family.  I love this concept.  If a breeder is doing this, and yet still has a few “retired” mother dogs to rehome, is this a red flag?  It seems to me that the guardian homes would still love them, even though retired or am I misunderstanding something?  Certainly the dogs would love their guardian families and want to be with them after bonding with them for 5 or 6 years.

I appreciate  your help in sorting all of this out.  I understand we can’t rate individual breeders here, but if anyone has any suggestions about mini Labradoodles close to Santa Barbara, CA, feel free to write to me personally.  Thank you in advance.  I love coming to Doodlekisses and reading everyone’s stories and seeing all the cute Doodle pictures!

[Sally S Miles]

I like to learn, particularly about things that I care about,  I do care about my dogs and I don't see where doing research should be lambasted.  We all should be reading the articles about the lousy breeding practices - after all don't we have to face the public with our chosen canine and get our dander up when someone accuses us of contributing to the pet population.    Why not encourage the study of what we are devoting fifteen years of our life to? 

I like the red flag list - it's spot on, but nothing can replace your personal intuition or hunches.  None is more correct than the other - what is right for you?   I have my own list of criteria that includes minutia - but it's important to me.     I passed on large productions - passed on some impressive pedigrees' - passed on many detailed dictates - but the beauty is we all have a choice and it's up to us to live with our decision.

I had to see where my dog  is from, meet parents and so on.  I have my own red flag list - - if money is the hottest topic on the breeder's conversation list - move on.  If the breeder has urgency with making choice - move on. If the breeder has reservations about visits, move on. If the breeder is defensive instead of educational, move on.  If the breeder has an ounce of compassion in their voice, verbage, it will show and it will come through in the pups.  If 'cute' is the focus, move on.  Puppyhood is very brief - dog is the end goal, look past cute and look at what is inside that package.    Websites are virtual reality - photos can be staged - but all any of us can do is our best and going into high surf when the red flag is up, not wise - happens all the time.

Rude? I think it's rude not to question = I do think it worthy and I don't think it warrants nastiness.

[Sally S Miles]

Donna, I had issues with that also - - send a wish list... I could not send a deposit for a promise, needed to be able to touch, see, sense.   Having visited a number of breeders, there is nothing like your own personal red flag system.     

There are millions of men on this planet, but I chose my husband and I choose my own dogs - I can live with that.

[Marie Dennen]

I was perhaps negative in my intial comments. My perspective and experience is seeing these beautiful loving creatures who have a home, food and family look like they were rescuedout of a neglect situation. It is a daily occurrence in grooming salons. So I may have some strong feelings when it comes to this. It is not uncommon for breed enthusiasts to discuss/debate issues going on with the breed. Try hanging out with the border collie people for a bit.I just offered some perspective. I don't know how my opinion can be discounted because I got my dog by chance. If hadn't take it it it may be still encased in its peltes coat. It is very important to learn more about these dogs. Poodle breeder are very critical of doodles. They may have some value able info to share. I can't understand the attitude of we have heard it before so we just don't want to hear it anymore.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Hi Marie,
Know that you are not alone. Maybe not as often as you, but many of us have taken in these poorly bred puppy mill dogs. Up all night cleaning infestations, crating, crying, and spending our own money to rescue.
While others can't do the in house ( foster) they give in other ways. DK has raised thousands of dollars to help.
Believe me, I've been jaded by these dogs and Mill situations more with each passing day. I truly understand. But you need to know, we do know what you are talking about too. If you knew us better, you would have known you are preaching to the Choir

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Let me be blunt - I've got pictures only, of my poorly bred, Dead doodle. We get it! We spend hours on here a day educating others on what to look for in a breeder, begging them not to look for a bargain, potty training over and over. How many times a damn day do we have to tell people Puppies Bite! It's normal. Ugh!
We spend hours a day answering questions worrying about the pups out there with the clueless owners.
We love these dogs AND we see what the hell is going on in Back Yard Breeder Land. Amish Breeder Land. We see and hear about sick, under socialized puppies everyday. WE GET IT. We understand how you must feel. We foster, we give money, we answer posts, we educate! We know how bad it is out there in ' let's ma$e a Doodle land'
Personally, I don't give a damn what any breeder thinks of my dog! I've read their posts. We have poodle breeders on here. Who cares? We dont. But we aren't clueless

[jenn D]

I can't reply under Laurie's post but the "perfect Doodle" post is an EXCELLENT read. More new owners or owners to be should read it. Thanks for posting and sorry I'm off topic. :)

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Thanks, Jenn!

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Thanks Laurie for reposting your blog. One of your best!  Marie, hope you find the many comments interesting too, because you'll see that as much as we love our dogs, we are quick to admit our individual doodles are far from "perfect." Most of us really try in our personal interactions and on this site to make sure potential doodle owners go into this commitment with their eyes wide open.  

F may be direct, but she's not cruel. ("F" stands for one of our Favorite people :) You've stated that based on your experience "good" doodles" are in a minority and there are very few "good" owners. Fair enough, that's your perspective, but comments like these are bound to draw fire. Hoping you and your doodle will get to know us better.

Elaine, sorry this discussion has gone off topic.  (I think Elaine has left ;)  

[Lori, Quincy & Frankie]

LOL- I think Elaine probably ran...

[Elaine Uomini]

No, I'm still here and have been reading everyone's comments with interest.  I appreciate all of your advice and perspective.  I love all the doodle photos.  I don't mind people going sllightly off topic.

However, now I am worried about labradoodles being too difficult for an older couple such as my husband and me.  The good part is that we have 24 hours a day to be with our new puppy.  The bad part is that we no longer have the energy levels we had when the kids were little.  I've been researching breeds and books on dog training for almost a year (my favorite is Pat Miller's The Power of Positive Dog Training.)

A labradoodle seemed a perfect fit for our lifestyle - lots of hikes and walks on the beach and camping trips in our little VW camper. Someone who would go with us to the store or coffee shop or garden center.  Here in Santa Barbara it's common for small dogs to go IN all those places with their owners.  One reason that we wanted a "mini" is because we are older and don't want a dog that is physically stronger than we are, and also because we want her to come with us everywhere.

We have owned dogs from puppyhood in the past very successfully, but it's been a while.

One breeder pointed out that a "mini" labradoodle would be a "small" or "medium"  dog in any other breed - 25 pounds or so.  I think that's the perfect size for us.  But are they really that difficult?  One of the reasons that I was attracted to the doodles is their therapy dog capabilities.  I know that not every dog can do this, but I'd love for our little doodle to visit nursing homes and special ed classes.

 

[Sally S Miles]

Elaine, every dog has different energy levels and so do people.  We have disabled folks here with pups and there are also those who are in great shape with dog troubles.    A good breeder should be able to help you determine which pup would suit you best, temperament is critical with all your desires.   Therapy dog capabilities are truly individual - it's Doable! 

We are also home 24/7 - both in our fifties and one of us has gobs of health issues.  We survived the first year of puppyhood with our Golden doodle, she is standard at 24" and 42lbs. We take her all over the place.  New pup is going to be about 25lbs..  It has been a while since we had a pup and I've been using the tag team method here.

<But are they really that difficult? >

They can be - but they can also be incredibly wonderful.  Not all dogs are suitable for travel, or therapy.   All dogs need exercise and training.     What you would be looking for is a suitable temperament.   I think it's a good question - and I agree consideration is in order.   

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

It's absolutely doable, Elaine :) I'm in your age group and have a 3 year old medium Australian Labradoodle. He's 20" and 45 lbs. He's a registered Therapy Dog and works with both the elderly in nursing homes and with special needs children.  I take him everywhere -- and have since he's been a pup. People love him and he's well behaved which I attribute to lots of training and temperament. He loves the car and is so quiet in the back seat that sometimes I have to look back to make sure I didn't forget him LOL.  He loves his walks and I make time for him to play and romp with other dogs. His play level is high so I like to find dogs or doodles with a similar level of energy. The beach is "heaven" to him because he loves the water. Your lifestyle sounds wonderful for a dog like this.  All that said, all dogs are different so I urge you to look for an Australian Labradoodle or multigeneration labradoodle --not a first generation cross -- and find a good breeder who breeds for health and temperament -- and pick a pup, not based on looks but a temperament that is calm, not shy --or overly dominant - and people oriented.  Not all dogs are suitable for what you want. Some breeders breed for therapy work - which means they are breeding for well balanced temperaments. As a puppy, Finnegan had lots of energy but 2 walks a day and some playtime and training in between worked well.  He was a challenge to housebreak but once housebroken, he has never gone in the house again.  Once the chewing stage was done, he has had the run of the house.  One thing I can't stress enough -- these dogs are very people-oriented and they need to be a part of your lives or they will make themselves a problem.  They all have their little quirks and surprises which you will come to love. Spend the time to talk with different breeders and find a pup that has the potential you're looking for. I have found the mediums to be a little less energetic than the minis, but it probably depends on the dog. I've met some of the other labradoodles here, and they are also wonderful dogs. Finn has turned out to be a real couch potato in the house (which is great for me:)  It's great that you're asking these questions now.