Seizures

[Abby and Raya]

Hi Everyone. I just joined doodle kisses and currently have a healthy doodle (fingers crossed). I did lose my first doodle to severe epilepsy. If anyone is dealing with seizures in their doodles and looking for support and someone to talk to, please email. I have been there and understand what you are going through!

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Nicole - The side effects of the phenobarb are:

Increased thirst - let him have the water - I am told that this may subside - it has not with Mariner (Obviously with the increase in liquids is an increase in his needing to pee)
Increased appetite - be careful not to let him gain weight
Tiredness - This usually subsides as he gets used to the medication

Usually the phenobarb is to be given in 2 doses a day. Try to keep them as close to 12 hours apart as possible and consistant times.

The phenobarb has a long half life and the medication peaks in the system about 4-4.5 hours after dosage. It takes about 3-4 weeks until the medication levels stabalize in the system. At that time they may want to do a blood test.

Some info that I have learned recently - During the seizure - Ice bag on the lower back may shorten the seizure and minimize after effects. After the seizure a teaspon of plain vanilla ice cream is a good idea. The seizure can bring down the blood sugar level of the dog. I have not tried either of these yet.

Make sure you have instructions on what to do in case of future seizures!!! We immediately give a dose of the phenobarb and if there is another seizure another dose. We can give upto three additional doses after that IT IS AN EMERGENCY. Fortunately we have only gotten to the second extra dose.

How much does Brody weigh? What dose of Phenobarb?

Mariner is 58 lbs. he is now on 48.6 mg twice a day.

Keep us posted. I hope Brody is doing better.

[Nicole Helmantoler]

Thanks for the info. We are already seeing the increased thirst and hunger. I think we'll need to move to a light dog food to keep Brody from getting overweight. Did Mariner have weakness in his legs when he first started the medicine? Brody has fallen down while playing a couple times and is very hesitant on the stairs, even with us right by him.

We go back in two weeks for blood tests to check his levels for the first time. Brody is 90 lbs and is now on 75 mg twice a day. That seems comparable to Mariner's dose based on their size difference.

We are hanging in there!

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

I forgot one of the other side effects is weakness in the legs - I beleive the rear legs. Again this is someting that should go away as he gets used to the medicine. Mariner does need help getting up on the couch, etc. Other than that the we don't notice any other weakness. He has been on phenobarb basicly from the time we got him so we really don't know what is attributed to the medication or to his underlying brain injury.

Hopefully there will be no recurrence of the seizures. After the blood test it may be possible to reduce his medication. The aim is to have the minimum amount that will controll the seizures.

It will take some time for him to get used to the medication. Pretty soon he will be back to his normal self.

Have you contacted the breeder to let them know. To see if it is genetic. The breeder should know if any other's from the same lines have seizures. They will want to try and isolate it and stop breeding any dogs that might be carrying the traits. Also it could help you with the cause.

Good luck. And keep posting.

[2hpulka53c8pt]

Hi All:

I am so sorry to hear about your dogs having seizures again. Maya hasn't had another grand mal seizure since her first two that were on a Friday and Saturday. She had focal seizures (I think for a week after) and since then nothing. She isn't on any meds as I don't want to put her on them unless she starts getting seizures more often. When she was going through all this I never left her alone for fear she would have a seizure without me. All I did all day was read the internet all day about seizures. The link that was posted earlier had a wealth of information. The ice bag/ice cream protocol....I made sure that I got a small Haagen Daz vanilla ice cream, I have a gallon sized ziplock bag filled with ice in the freezer ready to grab should I need it. I also got a bottle of rescue remedy (found at GNC for $9). Apparently this is good to give before your dog has a seizure (if your dog has signs that point to her/him gettting ready to seize). It is also good to give after a seizure to prevent another from happening.

As I do not give My any drugs yet please take this next part however you want. When I was doing my research it was not suggested to give extra Pb to dogs when they have a seizure ro after. Apparently there is a valium protocol for that. The thought is that the dogs body will adjust to the Pb in the system and if you give more during seizures it will cause you to have to keep upping the maintence dose to keep seizures at bay. Again do your reasearch and talk wih your vet and or neurologist and see what they have to say.

I will say that I do have My going to a holistic vet that does accupunture. My has had 2 treatments of accupunture and the holisitc vet wants to do at least 6 (one a month now) and then reasses. I am not sure if this is keeping the seizures at bay but it can't hurt. With the meds there are a lot of side effects and I was not comfortable putting My on them until I absolutey had to. The holistic vet told me that he had one dog that had seizures and has on high doses of Pb and KBr and then he started accupunture on the dog and they were able to wean the dog off the KBr and greatly reduce the PB dose. (this vet has a degree in traditional vet medicine and still practices traditional vet medicine....he got the accupunture and herbal knowledge within the last decade. He got the traditional degree in the 70s)

Again this is my opinion. My vet agrees with this approach until (if) My starts having more than 2 seizures a month then we will start meds. If My needs meds and after days and days of reseach I am going to start My on zonasimide (if need be). It's a newer drug to be used on dogs with seizures. Apparently the docs at NC State have been using it pretty successfully in their seizure prone dogs. It doesn't affect the liver and has a lot less side effects than the Pb.

Please do not think I am telling you what to do. I am just sharing what I have learned and what I plan for My.

Good luck with keeping the seizures at bay. My only has one seizure that I have witnessed and it was horrible. I really hope I do not have to have that experiene again.

P.S. I changed both my dogs diets to a RAW diet after My's seizures as well.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Heather -

Thanks for the response. I'm glad Maya is doing well. I am also glad that you were able to get some useful information from the posts here. I will look into the zonasimide.

Please continue to share. That is what this group is all about.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have provided a link here which has information on raw diets as they pertain to epilectic dogs...I was cautioned by Jack's specialist (a board certified veterinary immunology and dermatology specialist) against feeding a raw diet due to his immune system problems, and many of the reasons also apply to epilectic dogs. Although we each have to make these decisions for ourselves & our own dogs, I think there is an awful lot of scientifically inaccurate info out there, particularly on the raw-feeding proponents websites. I think this article is worth reading for anyone with an epilectic dog.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/Cautions_Raw_Food.htm

[2hpulka53c8pt]

Karen....I switched Maya to a RAW diet. Sh has been on it for 1.5 months. The first few weeks were rough going as I was learning. Now she is doing great on the RAW diet. I decided to switch her to a RAW diet after reading many threads cautioning about changing dog foods once the dog is on medication (esp KBr). I read both the pros and cons....I read one article on an epilepsy site that had 20 or so people who switched their dog to a home cooked or RAW diet. All except one said that at the least they believe thier dogs are more healthy, some stated that by switching they were able to lower medication doses or completely get off the meds.

I was still wondering if I made the right decision and I read the WDJ and this month the reviewed dog food. According to the WDJ dry dog food is the worst thing you can feed your dog. It was pretty interesting.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Someone else brought up the new dog food reviews in the WDJ in The Food Group; is it available on-line?
Jack isn't epilectic, he has an autoimmune disease, and his focal seizures are related to that, but I have started switching him over to a home-cooked diet. The storage mites in the kibble are one of the many things he is allergic to. Since he's also starting shots, I don't know if I'll be able to tell whether or not the food is making a difference. It IS so hard to make these food decisions. I guess we just have to keep reading, learning, sharing information, and staying flexible.
I hope the raw diet works well for Maya.

[2hpulka53c8pt]

Karen....Maya was on the homecooked food for about a month before switching totally to RAW. The vet wanted to make sure that there weren't any infections or anything going on and not to switch her diet to severely too fast.

As far as the WDJ you can read the intro on their website. It's $20 for an annual subscription. I signed up. I figure with all the money I spend on the dogs what's another $20....and just maybe I'll learn something. Good luck finding a diet for Jack....I know how hard it is.

[Terri Barton]

I too have a holistic vet ... we do acupuncture on our Australian Labradoodle every 2 months and only herbs to control the seizures. The seziures are much fewer in between than before we started this routine. Additionally we have eliminated grains from his diet. Only Canidae Grain Free food and natural treats. I would urge anyone with seizing dogs to consider acupunture! Initally we had him treated weekly, then bi-weekly, then monthly and now every 2 months. Seizures have gone from weekly to about every 8 weeks.

[Kirsy & Jasper]

My Australian Labradoodle started having seizures since he was 16 months old.
Just found out its genetic from his Grandfather, although his mother hasn't got it.
It can apparently jump one generation.
The seizures at first became further apart, BUT he had 2 in 5 days now.
They always start off with him vomitting. My Vet said, that could be the trigger.
We don't want him on any Medication, but I am very interested in the HERBS you use.
How can I find a recommended Acupuncture Vet. We live on the Sunshine coast in Australia. Is there a website?

[Amanda and Quinn]

Hi Kirsy, I'm sorry to hear that your doodle's seizures are getting closer together. We're dealing with the same problem. (Quinn also vomits before all of his seizures.) We are using medication, but if you are interested in finding a holistic vet, this site might be a good place to start:

http://www.ahv.com.au/about.php