Dogs and Kids Lessons Learned #1

[jenn D]

Hi fellow doodle friends.

I've hesitated to post this for two weeks but its nagged at me so much I guess I felt the need to finally start a thread.

I know I've mentioned I've helped teach training classes in the past (for local obedience club) in the capacity of teaching KPT (puppy) and basic obedience and some basic agility. I'm extremely knowledgeable about beagles (my breed in young adulthood before doodles also all training was my 10 years prior to kids) and moderately knowledge about some basic dog behavior.

However until I got Brisby (our first doodle) I never really had kids and dogs in a household together. I wasn't a human mom and dog mom at the same time. I've set some serious rules for both human kids and my canine kiddos. Both in my opinion can randomly forget the rules. I have a 8 (almost 9 year old daughter) and a 5 year old child (son). Daughter is 1 year post treatment survivor of leukemia. Son has special needs-cerebral palsy and epilepsy.   The reason I am telling you this is that I am pretty overprotective of my kiddos due to medical issues. Anyway, Im pretty strict on the fact that the kids CANNOT treat the dogs like baby dolls, stuffed animal, etc. We have rules like no hugging them, no jumping on them, do not dress them up, etc. I know many of you will laugh at the last one but kids do all kinds of crazy things.

So my kids are decently versed in not messing with the dogs and treating them with respect. However, kids are kids and dogs are dogs. The other night my 8 year old was playing with her crazy brother. She was laying on the floor and blowing imaginary "darts" at her brother. She shouldn't have been on the floor. That's one of my rules when dogs are out-no kids on the floor. However, as kids do, she forgot and fell down on the carpet while she  "blew" an imaginary dart at alex. Brisby was right in her path and got blown in the face which startled him. He reacted and  pawed her face, giving her a pretty red scrape. Of course, he thought she was doing something to him and reacted. She had paw scratches on her face for the next 2 days. While she was ok physically, besides superficial stuff, she was scared. But she actually apologized to Brisby and told me she shouldn't have been on the floor blowing air in Brisby's direction.  We did not punish Brisby and Grace actually knew she was in the wrong and hasn't been on the floor since.

I guess I just wanted to show that these kids/dog things happen even in hypervigelent households but you can educate your family when it happens. You can train your dogs and your kids.I love my kids, and my dogs. Mistakes happen on both sides. Its how you chose to handle it and learn from it and move forward that matters.

OK Im rambling.

PB&J says Hi to all.

 . \I 

[Ashley, Sadie and Coal]

Jenn, I love the videos of Grace.  What an awesome little lady!  I am so very grateful to see her healthy and strong.  You are an excellent role model for moms like me with both kids and doodles.  We have and 8 year old girl also (and two teenage boys).  I am constantly reminding her that she has to stay up off of the floor and act like a human, because our two doodles sometimes treat her as another puppy instead of one of their leaders. She has received a nip and a scratch or two and is beginning to understand.  This discussion is a very important one, and we all need to be proactive about the interactions between kids and pups.  Thank you for posting.

Please tell Grace that the Doodlers lover her!

[Julie and Max]

Loved the videos of Grace and the doods!

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Jenn, this is such an important area of education - for people considering a doodle puppy and people who have a doodle and are expecting a child.  Even for those of us with grandchildren, or children who visit. Thank you for posting. Finn uses his paws all the time.  Sometimes if I'm holding a toy, if he wants to get my attention, and sometimes when we're playing. He does it gently but it can still scratch. I'm glad your DD is doing well and it sounds as if you're the master of chaos :) and love! You sure have my admiration.  Great videos!

[John B]

Jenn, please expand on kids not allowed on floor with dogs.  

[jenn D]

I've started a blog for this stuff but it's waiting approval so I copied here for now.

We were talking on the DK forum about how I keep kids and dogs off the floor at the same time.
First of all let me preface this by saying I have an extreme case. I have 3 dogs all under a year and a half (Brisby 1 ½ years, Jake 1 year and 2 months, Pickles 5 months) and two kids that had/has significant medical issues. Throw in the fact that I am a super type A personality and you get a family dynamic that operates best under a structured environment.
As far as kids and dogs on the floor, here are my feelings on it. Two of the three of our pups are very, very puppy-ish. Pickles and Jake will wrestle with anything and everything on the floor. This includes each other, a dropped, pillow, a box from amazon-you name it they will wrestle with it. And they wrestle with Gusto. I think they think they are lions or some other wild beast. Brisby did a little of this when we got him (he was our first and the only doodle in our house for the first 8 months of his life). When it was just Brisby I noticed our son, Alex, constantly getting on the floor with him. Rolling on him, laying on him and rubbing up against him. I understood why Alex did this-one of the areas that was affected by a pre-birth stroke was the sensory processing part of his brain. He seeks out full body contact and loves to “crash” into things.
Now think about how that would go over with the two other doods we have now! So when it was just Brisby, I sat the kids down and laid out a plan. No rolling around with the dogs. Period. As far as I knew dogs probably just think you are playing with them dog style and I could see that going to bad places. Because my son likes to test boundaries he would try to “sit on the floor” with the dog which ended up turning into once again, a wrestling match. Thus, the rule became no kids on the floor while the dogs are out. The dogs have time to be crazy on the floor and the kids have time to be on the floor and play with their toys, just not at the same time. When the kids need time to play on the floor, the doodles go to their crates with a nice frozen kong treat (recipes thanks to DK!)
Here is how we established the “Don’t get on the floor” rule. (again, I am very structured). First we allow the dogs on our furniture. It’s a personal decision. We feel this allows the kids to snuggle with the dogs when the dogs are out. The dogs know “off” when we want them off the couches. So if the kids want to pet the dogs, they ask them up on the couches. Or the dogs climb up if they want affection. The kids can play with the dogs in the house as long as they are standing up so they can throw a toy for them etc. But I get on my kids if they lay or sit on the floor with the dogs because it becomes a “hey lets pile up on the human kid” game.
So the kids still can interact with the dogs, there are just ways to do it. Stay standing like a human, kiddo. Get a toy and have them fetch. Also, my kids are not allowed to play on any of the dog beds. Those are the dogs’ safe zones. If a dog goes there, he is saying “I need my space” just as I tell the kids that’s what they want when they are on the furniture and want to do Ipad or read without a dog jumping up. Everyone needs their space. My son had a hard time with this. He loved to roll in the dogs beds, even if the dogs were not in the room. I had to start taking away ipad time if he laid on the dogs beds. Eventually he stopped doing it because he valued playing his video games more. This all took time, months of reminders. My eight year old daughter is very obedient and she got the rules quickly. Our son on the other hand, is the most hard headed little boy and we really had to get creative with punishments and rewards for what we wanted him to do.
I have crates for my dogs. This is where they sleep or where they go if I have to run errands. The other thing I use the crates for is a schedule. I’ve really watched my dogs and kids, each have times when they have the zoomies (hyperness). The doodles have this first thing in the morning. So I get up at 6 am. Kids are still asleep and hubby is getting ready for work. I take the dogs out to potty and then the 3 of them and me go for a half hour speedy walk. Once we get home I let the dogs go crazy in the den. They wrestle and chase for about 45 min while I make kids lunches and get back packs ready.
About this time kids have woke up and doodles have got about an hr and a half of good exercise (zoomie time!). Now I know my kids, as soon as they wake up its zoomie time for them and they can really ramp the dogs up all over again. If you’ve ever seen 2 crazy kids and 3 zoomie doodles go at it, then you’ve seen extreme chaos in action. I’ll start rapidly blurting out things randomly, “ Brisby! Grace! Jalex…I mean Alex! Get your paws off your sister’s backpack! Paws!? Wait I mean, hands….Jake stop opening the trash can! Pickles put down Alex’s glove!” UGGH too much excitement, even for a Master of Chaos such as myself ( I’ve been dubbed by a DK member).
Sooo…As soon as the kids wake up, its time to feed the dogs. Why? Because my dogs need to digest their food after they eat. They go into their crates for an hour. This provides me with two things: 1) it helps the dogs relax and digest their meal. If I left them out post food, they would wrestle each other and throw up their breakfast which happened often in the past. 2) it allows me time to let the kids get their morning energy out uninterrupted by dog crazies and helps me navigate the before-school shenanigans that goes on in just about every household that has young children. After the kids are dress, have their breakfast and get off to school I let the doods out and we start the day.

I think its important (at least it was important to me) to observe when all family members are most energetic and start to create a plan on how to manage that for maximum benefit for everyone. I believe each family and dog is different so you really have to be observant and honest with what’s going on to bring an effective living environment for everyone. It can be done!


And this show our doodles wrestling moves. The brown loveseat is the doodle couch and humans only sit there at their own risk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XF8yomdDViw


Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/profiles/blogs/there-ain-t-enough-room-...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am so impressed by your organization and planning, I can hardly speak, which is saying something, lol.

I think the video is a great illustration of the way dogs play with each other, and the way in which they will play with small humans who seem to be inviting it by getting down on the floor with them. They use they mouths, they bite each other, they smack each other with their paws, they climb onto each others' backs. It's clear that these dogs love each other and are playing, there is no aggression involved. This is simply how dogs play. Puts all the "my puppy is aggressive, he nipped me" in perspective. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I am totally wowed by your organization.  You are really on top of what your kids and your dogs need.