Grain-free "all life stages" food for 20 week old puppy?

[Pam & Frankie]

Frankie is 20 weeks and until now, we have been feeding her Eukanuba Puppy Growth (which is what the breeder has been feeding her).  We haven't had any digestive issues with this brand (her poop is regular and well-formed), but we don't think she likes it.  Because she isn't a big eater, we try and leave it out so that she can go to it when she wants, but she almost never eats even close to the recommended amount for her age/weight.  But we know that she's hungry because she will be climbing all over us when we are eating to try and get at our people food.  We guess she doesn't like her puppy food.  More problematically, we noticed that she only seems to want her food when she is ravenously hungry and then will slam it all in one sitting without even chewing...  only to barf it up 20 minutes later.

Given that we were hoping to switch to a higher quality brand of puppy food anyway, we think it's time to make a change.  Because she is such a picky eater, we were thinking about shifting to a higher protein variety.  The DogFoodAdvisor.com recommended a bunch of brands of "5 star" dry food for puppies, but I noticed that many of the names were not geared toward puppies but rather "all life stages".  I am particularly interested in Earthborn Holistic Grain Free and Dr. Tim's Grain-Free (due to price and availability) which are recommended for "all life stages" but are listed as puppy food in DogFoodAdvisor.com.  I've always heard that puppies should be on special puppy food because it is developed for growth.  I've also heard that grain-free could be problematic for large breed puppies because there might be excess calcium.  Does anyone know anything about whether grain free is OK for puppies?  Anything about these particular brands of grain-free?  What other high quality but not super expensive brands can we try that aren't grain free but might be tastier for our pup?

Here is the full list:  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-puppy-foods/best-...

[Kate, Mel, Tenley & Harper]

I've tested Tenley on both the meadow feast and plains feast versions of Earthborn and he did not do well on them at all - I have heard of a bunch of other dogs that have had issues with them too, I think the food is too rich. BUT, I also know a lot of people swear by Earthborn. So I think it really depends on the dogs. I have heard it is great for dogs with constant ear infections (an issue we have with Tenley) so I really wanted it to work, but I ended up returning both bags I bought.

We fed Tenley Orijen Puppy (grain-free) and then switched to Orijen Adult (also grain-free) at 7 months old. When I bought the bag of adult food, I read that it says "all life stages" on the back. Karen (since I am sure you will see this!!) - do you know if Orijen Adult is an all-life-stages food? Had I known that I probably would have fed him that from the get-go, as we had to constantly monitor his weight when he was on the puppy food because he kept getting too fat! He was 5lbs overweight at 25lbs... thankfully he lost it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

At 7 months, Tenley probably doesn't really need a puppy formula anyway, but if Orijen has the adult food labeled "all life stages", you can rest assured it's fine for him. One of the nice things about feeding a Champion product, you can trust what they tell you. :) 

[Stephanie and Ragley]

Kate is right- every dog is different. Our Pyr is on Earthborn and has thrived on it. You just have to figure out what works for your sweet puppy! Ragley has been on Orijen Puppy since two weeks after she came home and unless financial issues arise, I never plan on switching from Champion.

[Joan Bollaert]

Orijen

[Rae]

We had the same problem with Cassie. We switched her over to Orijen Puppy, took 2-3 weeks to get her completely switched, and what a difference! She loves her food to the point we just got her a slow bowl just to slow her down! We are also concerned about excessive weight gain (Rozee, 8 year old GD is 75#!) so we'll be keeping an eye on that and if she starts gaining too much we'll add some pumpkin to use as a filler. Good luck.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Pam, we don't use The Dog Food Advisor or other dog food "ratings" sites because we have our own list of recommended brands, all of which have been carefully researched: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/recomme...

The problems with ratings sites is that no one type of food is the best choice for every dog, and the ratings sites only give the highest rating to grain free, high protein foods. Also, the ratings sites look only at ingredients and not at the sourcing of those ingredients. So they may give a higher rating to a grain-free food that contains ingredients imported from China, and a lower rating to a food that is made with all North American ingredients but contains some oatmeal. 

Eukanuba is not a recommended brand. You are right to want to change foods.

Regarding some of your specific questions:

"Large breed" formulas are really only meant for dogs who are expected to top 90 lbs as adults, the giant breeds who don't complete their bone growth until well into their second year. The issue is not excess calcium, but rather excess calories; "large breed" formulas typically contain less fat and fewer calories per cup because the idea is not to allow the puppy to get too big too fast. All puppy formulas contain a slightly different calcium & phosphorus balance than the adult versions, but it's a very tiny difference. In any case, calcium content has absolutely nothing to do with a food being grain-free, so whoever told you that is misinformed. Many puppies do very well on ALS (all life stages) formulas. You do not need a large breed formula, and any food that is AAFCO approved "for all life stages" is fine for your puppy.

Regarding price, it is pretty much impossible to determine whether one food is less expensive than another by looking at the price on the bag, since you feed different amounts, depending on the calorie content. If food A costs $40 and food B costs $30, but you go through three bags of food B in the same amount of time as two bags of food A, then you would have spent $90 on food B in that time period versus $80 for food A, and B is actually more expensive. 

Now, regarding your pup not liking her food, and finding "tastier" foods; forget about that. Dogs don't know there is such a thing as "tastier" food until we teach them. Your puppy should not be able to climb all over you when you are eating, lol, and she certainly shouldn't ever be given anything to eat anywhere other than her own bowl at her regular mealtimes. (not counting training treats, of course) When humans are eating, the dog should not be allowed to be circling or jumping at the table, they should be crated or practicing a "down stay". Free feeding also contributes to picky eating, as it teaches the dog that food is available any time you feel like eating some, and if you hold out, you might even get something better. A normal healthy puppy will not starve herself. Give her 20 minutes to eat and then pick up the bowl. Do not offer food again until the next scheduled mealtime. The dog learns to eat when she has the chance, or wait until the next meal. Later on, you can follow a rotation diet where you switch "flavors" or formulas within the same brand with each new bag you buy. Many of our recommended foods are designed for this, and it helps provide variety to the diet. 

Please read my favorite discussion on the topic of picky eaters and wanting our dogs to like their food. It will make you laugh, but it's good info. 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/an-ode-...

Dogs don't chew their food; eating too fast will cause vomiting and is also a risk factor for bloat. many people here use a slow-bowl to slow the dog's eating down. 

Regrading the two foods you asked about, I am not familiar with Dr. Tim's and don't have time to research it right now, but I will. Earthborn is an excellent brand. 

But my first choice is always going to be Orijen Puppy; you simply can't do better in a dry kibble. :) 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Info on the Slo-Bowl slow feeding bowl (highly recommended)  http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/do-you-...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And here is a great discussion with cost comparisons which illustrates how a food that looks more expensive actually ends up being cheaper to feed: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/costs-o...

[Kate, Mel, Tenley & Harper]

I didn't believe this before I got Tenley, that the expensive food would ultimately be cheaper. 

But Tenley is 8 months old now, and I have spent approximately $230 on dog food for 8 months. Annualize that we get $345 for the year. A good friend of mine feed Bil-Jac and for her dog she spends over $500 a year. We just calculated this the other day to see who spends more. Orijen wins again!

[Kate, Mel, Tenley & Harper]

(I should probably add to my reply that Tenley is a smaller dog weighing only 30lbs so if you have a standard doodle your food costs will definitely be more. The Bil-Jac comparison was for the same sized dog as Tenley.)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

When JD's IBD was diagnosed and I had to switch from Orijen, I thought "Well, one positive thing, I'll save a little money on his food now." Wrong. 

The feeding amounts for both of the LID formulas he's eaten have been significantly higher, and so have the costs. :( 

[Stephanie and Ragley]

Here are a couple more helpful links that I always send to people regarding cost:

http://www.fidosmarket.com/the-cost-of-food/

http://www.crittercabana.com/dog-food-costs-per-month-comparison/