Finally made the switch! ...but poop issues??

[Nikki & Charlie]

So after reading a bunch of different discussions, posting my own discussions, testing out a "non-recommended" food (that Charlie didn't even like anyways), I have made the switch to Fromm.

I bought the beef frittata flavour and let me tell you, Charlie LOVES it. I mixed a small amount with his TLC food and I'm going to gradually increase the amount over a week or two, and he gobbled it up woo fast. With the other non-recommended food (canine caviar) he barely touched his food if it was mixed in.

Now, TLC is 26% protein and this food is 30%. Right after he had his lunch he went poo and it was major diarrhea (sorry for the details). He has coccidia and his medication was helping to make his poop hard... until he had this food.

Do you think the food change caused the diarrhea? Maybe because the increase in protein? Should I give him an even smaller amount for dinner of this new food?

He's 10 weeks old and I've had him for two weeks.

Also, I bought him a smoked flavour bully stuck and it was the best purchase ever! He loves it and stays busy with it for hours lol. Is it okay for him to eat it? I notice that the end he chews on is now very string and soft and im worried if he can choke or something.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When it comes to food, especially for a very young puppy, make only one change at a time. That means, when you are changing foods, you do not introduce a new treat at the same time. Introduce only one new thing at a time.

You have made two food changes and introduced a new treat all within the first two weeks of your puppy being home, and at a time when he was also being treated for an intestinal parasite. All of these things could be contributing to the diarrhea.

Any time a dog is on an antibiotic, which is always what is used to treat intestinal parasites, you must give them a probiotic to help replace and maintain the good flora in their digestive tract which is being destroyed by the medication. I don't remember your having told us about the coccidia in your previous discussions about changing food, or I would have advised you to hold off changing foods and also to give a probiotic. 

I would also not have introduced a bully stick at the same time you are changing foods. And I would not have changed foods until the coccidia was completely cleared up and the medication finished, and you had firm stools for a period of at least a week or two. 

There is probably nothing that is harder on a puppy's digestive system than bully sticks. My guess is that the bully stick is the reason for the diarrhea. But it could be the formula change, too. 

It's not due to the tiny little protein increase, that much I can say for sure. But you did make a fairly radical change in formulas. Again, I would need to know the exact TLC formula you are feeding to be certain of all the changes, but I'm fairly certain there was a protein change as well as the elimination of grains. I would have chosen a new food that utilized the same protein sources he was already eating, to make the transition easier. The Fromm Puppy Gold formula might have been a better choice.

Again, young puppies have immature digestive systems and cannot handle all these changes. Just like with human babies, you must make only one change at a time and introduce only one new food at a time. Then you wait until all is well with the digestive tract before introducing anything else. 

At this point, I would eliminate the bully sticks, and not make any more changes in his diet. Get some plain unflavored nonfat yogurt and start giving him two tablespoons twice a day, at least 2 hours apart from the medicine. You can also pick up some plain canned pure pumpkin (not pie filling)  and add a couple of tablespoons to his meals to help firm the stool. Go back to feeding just the TLC food if possible, and wait until everything returns to normal with his digestion. In the meantime, order a bottle of Proviable DC capsules and use those in place of the yogurt when you get them. I hope this helps. 

[Nikki & Charlie]

I didn't realize the bully stick would impact him in any way, and I didn't really consider his parasite when switching foods. The TLC he's on is chicken and lamb meal, rice, oats, there's some salmon and a bunch of other things.

I feel terrible for doing this to him I didn't realize all these things would effect him. I'll take away the bully stick and go back to TLC food, but should I start introducing the Fromm food when his antibiotics are finished? Because his stool was harder, up until today. I have pumpkin, I'll give him that tonight and I'll grab yogurt tomorrow.

Where do I order those capsules from?

[Jennifer & Truffle]

You can order the capsules from www.chewy.com.  Good luck with your adorable pup!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You can order Proviable DC capsules on-line from a number of sources. Just Google it. 

Forget about when you can reintroduce the Fromm for now. Let's just take it really slow and focus on getting his digestive system back to normal. When will the vet do a re-check on the fecal to be sure he's parasite free? I would not do anything until then at the very soonest. 

I know it's exciting to have a new puppy and there are all these things you want to buy for him and give him, but you have many, many years for all of that. Slow down. :) 

The TLC food contains lamb, chicken, chicken liver, and  salmon as the protein sources, and oats, barley, rice, millet, quinoa, flaxseed, and peas as the carbs. By introducing the Fromm Beef Frittata formula, you added beef, beef liver, pork, and cheese for a total of 8 different protein sources and russet potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, apples, green beans, cranberries, and blueberries for a total of 16 different plant foods. 4 new protein sources and 9 new carbs. That's enough to upset any baby's digestive system, lol. Way too many new things added at once. There is almost nothing similar between the two foods in terms of ingredients, so it's a much greater adjustment than it would have been if you just switched to a similar formula in a different brand. 

You might consider returning the Fromm food to the store for an excahnge. Tell them it made your puppy sick and you need to exchange it for something more similar to his current food. Almost any store will do that. I would choose a different formula that is closer to the TLC food in terms of protein sources, possibly the Fromm Puppy Gold or if you want to stay with a grain-free formula in the Four Star line, maybe the Surf n Turf. 

The Chicken a la Veg and Salmon a la Veg formulas have worked very well for other members whose dogs had more sensitive digestive tracts. Those might be good options as well, they are simpler formulas with single protein sources which you already know he can handle. Later on when he is older, you can switch and rotate with other Fromm formulas. 

[Nikki & Charlie]

I'm going to call the vet this week to find out when they will recheck it. He has an appointment at the end of the month for his shots, so maybe then.

I guess I am getting too excited! It's been two weeks and it feels like it's been 10 months lol. Yeah this pet store will definitely switch the food for me. Are the salmon or chicken grain free? I'm hesitant about the chicken flavor bevause that was the same as the canine caviar and he didn't like it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

But there is also chicken in the TLC food. Was he eating that okay before you added anything new? 

The Chicken a la Veg & Salmon a la Veg are not grain free, but they are both similar to the TLC formula in terms of ingredients. The Fromm Puppy Gold is similar as well. Honestly, if you want a grain-free formula, I still recommend going with Orijen Puppy for such a young a dog, but if you want to stay with Fromm, the Surf & Turf is the most similar to what he is currently eating in terms of protein sources. 

[Nikki & Charlie]

Good point. I forgot about the chicken in the TLC. Maybe it was just the general taste of the caviar. He loves his TLC food! Eats it right up.

Okay this may sound naive of me to ask but remember this is all new to me. I've been told orijen is extremely high in protein and that it is too harsh on puppy stomachs. Also, orijen doesn't have a variety of flavours like fromm does, which is why I thought it would be better since I can rotate the flavours.

Thanks again for all your help. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Again, it sounds like you have been getting your information about food from some very badly informed sources.

There are only three sources of calories: protein, fat and carbohydrate. Those are the only macronutrients there are. Proteins break down into amino acids, the building blocks of every part of your body. Carbohydrates break down into sugars, and fats break down into lipids. Every food is composed of these things in some combination. If the protein percentage of a dog food is 30%, that means that 70% of the energy (calories) in that food are being supplied by carbohydrates and fat. 

Protein foods are animal foods: chicken, fish, eggs, beef. That's what your dog would be eating if he was living in the wild. A rabbit, a squirrel, a pheasant. Protein is the natural food for dogs. There is some fat involved in eating animal foods as well, but there is no carbohydrate whatsoever. Carbohydrates come only from plants. So we see that a dog could live perfectly well with no carbohydrates in his diet at all. But he could not live without protein. Does it sound right for the greatest part of a dog's calories to be coming from sugar or fat? That's the alternative. 

Orijen contains 38% protein. That's not extremely high at all. 

How could protein, the most important and essential macronutrient be too "harsh" for a dog's stomach, in any amount? I'm not even sure what that means, lol, but whoever said it doesn't know much about nutrition or about dogs. :)

No, there is no variety in the Orijen puppy food. But feeding your puppy is about what is best for his health, and not about what he "likes", variety, or what is more interesting or fun for us. It's really important that you do not view feeding your pup the way you view choosing and eating foods for yourself. 

There is nothing wrong with trying the Fromm, but don't avoid Orijen because of the protein content or the lack of variety for a few months of his life. Again, he has many, many years for that. 

[Nikki & Charlie]

You're full of information. I feel like I have learned so much from you today alone. Thank you again for taking the time to help me with this.

So do you recommend going on orijen as a puppy and then maybe switching to Fromm when he's an adult? Or just stick to orijen?

And he should be on the orijen large puppy, correct? He's expected to be 50-55lbs.

For dinner I gave him the TLC with the puréed pumpkin and he absolutely loved it. His stool was firmer too.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You do not need a "large breed" formula for a dog who is not expected to top at least 80 or 90 lbs as an adult. Ever. You would use the regular Orijen Puppy. 

We are not going to think about what he's going to eat when he's an adult, next year. You have a long time until then, and lots can change. Please just focus on right now. :) 

(But just FYI, there are other varieties in the Orijen adult formulas, and Acana, the other brand made by Champion.) 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Bully sticks give my dogs diarrhea .

[Nikki & Charlie]

I took away the bully stick and the new food and his diarrhea is gone. I'm going to reintroduce the bully stick after he's been transitioned fully to new food to see how he reacts to it!