Growling/snapping continues, DH wants to rehome--what to do?

[Jessica & Benny]

A year or so ago I posted about Lola baring her teeth and growling, and although we've been working with a trainer regularly her behavior has not improved, if anything it's getting worse.  She's almost 2 and a half years old. She still will bare her teeth and freeze at my kids (6 and 8) on occasion, either when they walk by her, or when they pet her for a short while--even after she approaches them--and frankly I don't know if we can keep her. She has snapped at my MIL (drew blood, but more of a scrape), the girls' friends, and last week, while we were on vacation, the next door 6 year old who didn't even try to touch her, just seems to have walked close by her. No blood, parents weren't upset, but DH's big fear is that one day she will really bite someone, or even just scrape them and we will get sued and it will ruin our lives. I'm taking her to the vet today for a check up/consultation, going to ask if maybe there's a medical way to help with her underlying anxiety, but it is so stressful. The constant vigilance is exhausting, what we're doing doesn't seem to be helping (and I love the trainer--he's very well regarded and has helped us with other training issues), and I don't know what to do. I feel like we have completely failed as owners and it would break my heart to give Lola up, but how can I not put my family's safety first? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am really sorry to hear this.

Please ask your vet to run a full thyroid panel. You need the full panel, not just a routine blood test where only T3 or T4 is measured. The full panel will need to be sent out and takes about a week to get the results, but it is the only way to get an accurate result. I know of a few doodles whose aggressive behaviors turned out to be linked to a thyroid disorder, and once they were put on medication, the problem resolved. It's a long shot, but at least you will know that you did everything you could. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, and I hope it doesn't come to this, your purchase agreement with your breeder most likely stipulates that you must contact the breeder if you ever need to rehome the dog. 

[Judith and Addie]

My heart goes out to you, because I have been in a similar situation. You are right that you need to have a medical evaluation done for Lola to rule out any medical issues. I suggest you consider a complete thyroid panel as part of it, not just the T4. Here is some info in thyroid disease.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/8_6/features/15723-1.html

I did not have a full panel done, only the T4, and I have regretted it. He did have some abnormal blood chemistry that the university vet hospital here could not determine the cause and my vet felt did to relate to his aggression.My dog's aggressive behavior started when he was a little less than 18 months and it accelerated. My behaviorist said it is typical for aggressive dogs to begin to show their aggression between 12 and 18 month.

[Jessica & Benny]

I'm so glad I posted before seeing the vet--I will definitely get him to do a full panel.  On thinking about it, she's such a skinny little thing (despite eating more or less the amount she's supposed to) that it wouldn't surprise me if she had thyroid issues.

[Michele Kiss]

Oh my :-(  I don't have much prior experience to help you, but just wanted to say I really feel for you and your family. What a rough situation to be in. 

My only advice (on top of comprehensive medical testing others have mentioned below) would be to ABSOLUTELY try any medication that might help. My (now) 8-year-old cat had biting (she put me on crutches once!) and "inappropriate elimination" problems and our vet prescribed Amitriptyline, an anti-anxiety/depression med. It made a world of difference! (And, in better news, as she got older we were eventually able to take her off it, because she calmed down.) This may be a simple brain chemistry thing that could easily be solved with medication. I would try that for sure. (And if your vet is anti-meds - I have seen some that are - I would recommend taking her to someone else. At this point it's worth a shot rather than rehoming...) 

I would definitely talk to your breeder also. In interviewing ours, we tried to look for examples of how she had handled things not going well. Turns out a number of years ago she had a pup out of a litter of FOURTEEN (yikes!) that had aggression issues just like the ones you are describing, and when they tested him they were able to figure out why (and unfortunately it *was* related to so many puppies in the litter and oxygen issues during the pregnancy.) But find out if your breeder has had issues like this with other pups, what it turned out to be, what they would recommend etc. 

Best of luck and keep us updated. 

[Marcey Peyser Friedman]

On occasion my 2 year old medium goldendoodle will growl and then snap. Mostly when she is relaxing and my daughter bothers her. I have snuffed her neck and said inappropriate to her. She stops and then becomes relaxed again. She has never bitten anyone or actullay met teeth to skin to anyone.
I also think making sure she is well exercised helps her stay calm. She requires about 2 miles a day of walking. I also take her to training classes 2x/week. The mental and physical exercise has helped her as well.
Have you read or looked at Cesar Milan's information? He often deals with aggressive and stressed dogs. I have found his approaches helpful as well. You can go on his website and even email him for advice.
good luck
Marcey

[Michele Kiss]

T

[Patti and Bosco]

Hi Jessica,  I'm sorry that you are going through this.  It's a tough situation for all of you.  We have a reactive doodle and we are all just a work in progress right now.  Bosco bit our grown son.  Although it just left a very bad bruise and a tooth sized hole in his pants, the anguish I felt then and now over it can be overwhelming if I allow myself to think about it.

I have so many thoughts of things to say.  

First, stay safe.  Once Bosco bit our son we never let him close enough to anyone he could be reactive to.  We knew his safe people and places and the rest were off limits.  We are still working on getting people in the house without having to put Bosco in the bedroom.

Second, is your trainer a positive reinforcement trainer?  We found that corrective methods (recommended by the first trainer who is highly recommended) only made things worse for Bosco.  Giving him a tug on the leash when he was barking and lunging did absolutely nothing but make him bark and lunge more.  Once we found a positive-reinforcement trainer things started to turn around for us.  

Third, go to the vet.  I would get the thyroid tests done as well as discuss the possibility of medication.  Once we went to a vet behaviorist (highly recommend if you have one in your area), and got a prescription for medication, Bosco was much easier to train.

Fourth, check out the discussions about Doggy Dan's website.  It could bring you a little bit of immediate relief...worth a try.

And lastly, I know you feel bad and this is such a stressful time for all of you.  I know how exhausting what you are going through is.  I've been there and it's hard.  You are good dog owners and you have not failed.  You just need a few more tools with a reactive dog.  You are posting on a great site and I'm sure there will be others that will chime in with great advice.  Jane helped me when I needed it and she is a wealth of information.

Hang in there!  We are here for you.

[Jessica & Benny]

So, back from the vet with a prescription for fluoxetine.  In the end I held off on doing the thyroid tests for now, because he didn't believe she fit the description for hypothyroidism, saying he typically only sees it in large dogs (Lola's a teeny 17 lbs), and usually when they're older, and that the type of aggression I was describing didn't fit the "rage" that goes with the thyroid. In any case, I'm going the give the meds a chance to work, but will have him do the thyroid tests if they don't.  Fingers crossed that we'll have a more mellow, tolerant Lola in a few weeks. Thanks to everyone for all your ideas and support--this is the best forum, and I'll post an update!

[Shari Becker]

Hi Jessica,

I think so many of the ideas here are great, but I just wanted to second what Patti is saying about the training. Lexi occasionally snaps, and she once drew blood ... Our trainer (who only does positive reinforcement training, not corrective or punitive) told us that Lexi is an anxious dog. She said anxious dogs can become more anxious with corrective and punitive training methods. 

Part of our training has been about getting to the bottom of what makes Lexi stress out, and then trying to anticipate and prevent those situations. For example, we realized that there are two dogs at our dog park who really stress her out, so our trainer advised us to stop going for a while and do leash walks instead with other dogs. It's made a huge difference. The trainer also told us that anxious dogs need to feel like their human leaders are absolutely in control and not feel that they are fending for themselves. They only know how to defend themselves with their mouths...

I hope the medication takes the edge of and you are able to get a handle on this. It's so stressful when your dog is making you nervous, and I'm sure the anxious energy makes the dog feel more anxious, too. 

All this to say ... How luck is Lola that she has a family so intent on loving her and helping her figure this out? Good luck! 

[Cathy, Fozzie & Shaggy]

Hi Jessica, I have been where you are, a long time ago ,and it was a very difficult and stressful situation...I'm sorry you and your family are struggling.  You have been given great suggestions and I really hope they help!  Here is my "two cents"....a friend who is a behaviorist dog trainer has told met NOT to correct my boys if they growl, or snap at another dog or people.  She explained that dogs regard your correction as an attack and may go into attack mode even quicker next time they face strangers to avoid being attacked again. I use distraction when I know there is the potential for a problem.  

As for rehoming Lola, I agree with the others to first contact the breeder to see what their policy is, but if they do not require the return of their pups with serious problems then please consider how safe it would be to a new family to re-home Lola with them.  I made the decision to euthanize the aggressive dog I had after trying everything I knew back then to change him.  My vet said in good conscious he couldn't recommend a re-home because of the high potential for harming others.  I do still have a twinge of guilt because of what I have learned about dog behavior and training sense then and will always wonder if I could have done more to help him become a balanced dog.  Again, these are just my thoughts from my experience...I wish you the VERY BEST of luck!!!!

[Rebecca, Kandy & Murphy]

Can you up her exercise?  One of our dogs can be "challenging" at times and I've found that keeping him tired helps with his self-control (for lack of a better word).  We now do at least 2 walks a day where we require good behavior and one long fetch or off-leash run (early or late in an empty dog park pen).  We sort of live by the saying "a tired doodle is a good doodle".  We've really had to rethink our schedule to make this work but it does make the life so much easier -- which I have to remind myself every day at 5:30 when the alarm goes off.