Never Ending Diarhea

[Wasseem Sidhom]

here it goes...7 month old cooper tested positive for giardia on aug 22. Went on a 7 day course of metronidazole. Very Loose stool continues and on 9/5 another extension of 10 days of metronidazole despite testing negative for giardia this time. Loose stool continues. Stopped antibiotics on 14th and started giving probiotics (proviable) as recommended on Wednesday 17th. 1 pill / day for the past two days. Loose stool continues.

Today during the followup, vet recommends another 5 days of metronidazole while stopping all treats. which means I have to stop proviable.

I had read some where that metronidazole could cause diarrhea but vet dismissed it. Not sure whether to continue trusting and pushing more antibiotics.

 

Otherwise he's acting totally normal. Ever since I stopped the antibiotics I feel like his appetite is back. Tried giving him pumpkin but he won't take it voluntarily.

 

Should I dump the vet, or obey? Thoughts?

[Fitz & Henry]

Poor Cooper and poor you! Been there... Done it ALL. Metro isn't great for dogs to be on all the time. Ask them if you can try Drontal which is a heavy duty dewormer. I know Giardia is not a worm. But that has been a new treatment they are using. We suffered thru Giardia for 9 months! My vet put Henry on some crazy probiotics I'll look at bottles when I get home. We had him on probiotics for 2 weeks took a break from the metro then hit him for 5 days on the Drontal & we went through that process 2x. That seemed to work. You must get 3 consecutive negative test though when dealing with Giardia. It's a nasty resilient parasite! Good luck!!

[sandy b]

What food are you feeding thru all this?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Wasseem, I do think you need a new vet. 

Metronidazole is not the most effective drug for treating giardia, and it has a lot of side effects. Used repeatedly, especially in puppies and especially without probiotics, there is the chance that it will cause a serious incurable immune-mediated GI disease (Inflammatory Bowel Disease). This has happened to at least one DK member. 

It is well-known that metronidazole destroys all of the bacteria in the gut, including the beneficial gut flora that is necessary for proper digestion and stool formation. It is very, very common for diarrhea to develop as soon as the metro is discontinued.

I would not give more metronidazole. If the fecal was negative, it may just be a bacterial imbalance causing the diarrhea, caused by the metronidazole.

The probiotics need more than 2 days time to work. 

Stopping all treats should not mean stopping the Proviable. If you don't know how to "pill" a dog, it's time to learn now. You are going to be giving many a pill over the course of Cooper's life. :)

I would continue the Proviable. You may want to go to a bland diet for now until the stool firms up. Use a 50/50 mixture of finely cut plain boiled white meat chicken and plain baked mashed sweet potatoes. You will need to feed more of this mixture than the amount of kibble you normally feed, as it is much lower in calories. What is he currently eating? What kind of treats is he getting? 

You also need to be absolutely vigilant about supervising him outdoors to be sure that he is not ingesting anything, including not allowing him to drink water from puddles or any other source. 

Hopefully, you have been disinfecting everything, indoors and out,  that may have come into contact with feces while he had the giardia, to prevent reinfection.

If the stool doesn't firm up soon, you need to ask the vet for a 5 day course of Panacur. If this vet will not give it to you, find one who will. Studies have shown it to be more effective for giardia than metronidazole and with virtually no side-effects. 

Hope this helps. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, if you are still giving the canned Alpo (I just looked back at your last FG discussion), that needs to stop immediately. Also any kind of treat that can be purchased in the grocery store, Walmart, etc. Use only pure protein treats from a brand on our FG recommended treats list, or plain cooked chicken. 

[Wasseem Sidhom]

I'm feeding Orijen with a Wellness 95% topping. The Alpo lasted for 1 day until i figured out the Wellness 95% per your recommendation Karen. Have been pilling cooper with the pill wrapped up in a piece of cheese or a small piece of ham.

The diarrhea never stopped since the original diagnosis on Aug 22. It is very controlled and regular.  3 poops a day pretty much the same time daily.

Giardia tested negative Sept 5, so i should be safe there...no?

Treats currently taking are Kong snacks, raw hide  & pig ears, and greenies.  I'll stop all of this right now and just continue only with Proviable.  

Thanks for the feedback.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think the Wellness 95% was recommended by someone else in that discussion. I recommended Wellness Simple Solutions, but that doesn't really matter. 

None of those treats are recommended for any dog, healthy or not. All are poor quality, (there are some pig ears that okay, but you have to be certain of the sourcing)and rawhide from any source can cause major problems, including a bowel obstruction.

I'd also stop the ham and the cheese. I realize you are using small pieces, but they are very high in fat. 

[Trudy Harlow]

Pig ears reliably gave my pup diarrhea every single time. Stopped them pretty quickly, as I did rawhide. Cheese also gives my dog the squirts.

What do you put in the Kong?

As Karen points out, there are many, many junk food dog snacks on the market these days. Be extraordinarily careful not to buy anything from China, and try to find a higher level pet store that sells quality treats. Wellness makes treats.

I feed my dog freeze-dried meat and meat jerky with few additives. They are low in fat, although if I give my dog too much jerky, he will definitely develop diarrhea. He had coccidia as a puppy and still has a sensitive gut. Your pup may be plagued with this hold-over as well. My daughter (definitely a human!) had giardia years ago and still has a sensitive gut, which her doc has told her is pretty common.

Karen is right: learn how to give your dog pills manually. It will serve you well for years to come.

You said he's going 3 times a day - is it totally liquid, or just soft and unformed?

[Fitz & Henry]

As someone who have PTGS - post traumatic giardia syndrome... I'd say be safe and get multiple negative tests - more than one for sure. It's is quite common to see false negatives with giardia tests. And these test are not expensive to have your vet run. You really want to be sure it's gone. As your dog gets older and his system gets stronger that will help rid him of the giardia too.