Is This Normal?

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

Aspen had her second round of shots today. She did well afterwards but this evening she started seeming very tired and was laying around a lot. She just threw up all of her dinner (she ate hours ago). She hasn't thrown up before. Is this normal? Is it a side effect? I'm trying not to freak out. :)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I'm just seeing this.  I hope she's feeling better this morning.  The shots can make them a little sleepy, but my guys never vomited.  If she isn't back to normal this morning I would make a call to the Vet.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Once she's done with the puppy shots, you'll want to follow Jean Dodd's vaccine protocol. Three year versions of all vaccines, and allow 3-4 weeks between her rabies shot and her parvo/distemper shot. This is safest for all dogs, but for those who may be more sensitive to vaccines, it's even more important.  

Here's a link. (The protocol did not change for 2015.) 

http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/66693331640/dod...

[Marie + Marshall]

I am about to be faced with this, as Marshall just turned one and I'm praying his vet will do these 3 year ones. If they say they don't (i haven't asked yet) can I ask them to order for me??

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

My vet offers a three year rabies and a three year DHPP but then they will still have to do yearly Lepto and bordetella, is that normal to what you guys have experienced? If there is a three year Lepto I would love to start doing those as well, this past month I did Loki's three year DHPP and one year bordetella (orall for bordetella) at the beginning of the month and a couple days ago he got his three year rabies and one year Lepto. But thank you for posting this article! I have not read it before.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Lepto is optional, you have to weigh your dog's risk factors. There is no 3 year lepto vaccine, and the newest version, with the least side effects, is given in two shots, a month apart. If you choose to do the lepto vaccine, I'd ask for the "two shot version", and I'd give it at two separate appts apart from any other vaccines. 

We do the intranasal version of the bordatella vaccine, and we also do that separately from anything else. We don't get charged for an appt, as it can be given by a vet tech, there's no need to see the vet provided your dog is UTD on everything. In fact, in my area, the only vaccine that must be given by a vet is the rabies vaccine, mostly because the vet has to sign the county forms for the rabies tags. 

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

Oh interesting. I did not know Lepto is optional. I will have to look into the "two shot version" I wasn't aware there was one. Thank you!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The only vaccines that are really not optional are rabies, parvo, distemper, and hepatitis. These are referred to as the "core vaccines". Everything else is optional based on your individual dogs' risk factors. The lepto vaccine does not provide immunity to leptospirosis in an estimated 30% of all dogs who get it.

Lepto vaccines are relatively new. The original vaccine has some pretty nasty side-effects, which led to the development of the newer version, which is given in two shots, about 4 weeks apart. My vets use this type, and have told me it's safer in terms of adverse affects.

Lepto is a really, really nasty disease, so if your dog is at risk, it's probably best to get the shots. Any dog who spends any time around bodies of water (rivers, lakes, streams, ponds, marshes, etc) should really get the vaccine. 

The cases of lepto across the country have increased greatly in recent years. It used to be that dogs who lived in urban or suburban areas and never got out into the country were safe. Apparently, that's no longer the case. Back in 2012, my vets started recommending it to all healthy dogs in their suburban practice. They told me that in the past, they didn't see a case of lepto from one year to the next. But that year, they'd already seen 6 cases, all in pet dogs who walked on sidewalks and lawns in residential neighborhoods and never got out into the country. 
JD is on immune suppressants meds for chronic illness, so he doesn't get the lepto vaccine. If he were healthy, I'd probably give it. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Oh, and here's a chart showing the various dog vaccines, with information on each: http://www.lantanaatlantis.com/images/Checkup/VaccinationRecommenda...

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

Thank you!!

[Nancy & Echo]

I don't have any practical experience, of course, but this Pubmed abstract compared how some dogs do get vomiting and can have other symptoms within 1 hour after vaccination. The adverse effects included " circulatory collapse, cyanosis, dyspnea, facial edema, and vomiting within 1h after vaccination with non-rabies monovalent or combined vaccines".   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734545

To get some idea of the potential frequency, In this study of ferrets, which of course are NOT dogs, "Ten of the 14 anaphylactic reactions occurred after ferrets received both vaccines, 3 occurred after ferrets received the distemper vaccine alone, and 1 occurred after a ferret received the rabies vaccine alone. Incidences of adverse events after administration of both vaccines, the distemper vaccine alone, and the rabies vaccine alone were 5.6, 5.9, and 5.6%, respectively." This number may well be very different in dogs, but I can't find any info about the incidence of immediate vaccination in dogs.  Undoubtedly, the incidence may be very different with different vaccines. This paper advocates monitoring the ferret for a little while at the vet after these vaccines are given.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12959385

I do support the use of vaccines, of course.  They are certainly safer than the disease they are trying to prevent.  Often times they have no other specific treatment for these diseases except vaccination, and vaccination helps prevent the spread of disease to other animals.

I'm so glad Aspen is better this morning.

[Nancy & Echo]

Here, I found something of the incidence in dogs.  This does not provide much info about which specific vaccines.

VAAEs (nonspecific vaccine reaction, allergic reaction, urticaria, or anaphylaxis) diagnosed within 3 days of vaccine administration ...(38.2/10,000 dogs vaccinated) Young adult small-breed neutered dogs that received multiple vaccines per office visit were at greatest risk of a VAAE within 72 hours after vaccination.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16220670

So the incidence of 38.2/10,000 dogs vaccinated is not huge, but I'm so glad you were watching over your dog.

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

This happened to Loki when he got his 16 week shots. He had gotten his rabies, DHLPP and bordetella in the same appointment. The vet suggested that next time he get his yearly shots a little more spaced out. I guess sometimes puppies get sick from getting a few at the same time? I'm not sure which ones your baby got. Hope she feels better!