The f1 vs. f2?? What's your opinion?

[Sarah]

Hi, I'm new to this doodle blog, but am hoping I can get a little help.

I've always wanted a goldendoodle. I've been doing some research on them and realized I know nothing about this type of dog and I thought I did!!
I've found a breeder online who is close to where I live. This breeder has goldendoodle's for sale ranging from $1,200 for the f1 and $900 for the f2.
I believe the goldendoodle that the majority of people have is the f1, correct?
It's difficult to find any real information on the f2 variety. I know to get an f2 goldendoodle a breeder has to mate two f1's together.

Some websites say the f2 sheds less and is good for people who suffer from allergy's, but yet it's the cheaper of the doodles and not many breeders have them for sale.

Also other blog sites that I've come across, describes the f2 as a "disaster" and a breeder who has these dogs for sale is not is a "reputable" breeder. I've found the majority of goldendoodle breeders don't have the f2 as an option, so I'm wondering if the "reputable" breeder thing is correct? Is there something wrong with the f2? Why wouldn't I want to go with the f2?

Here's my wish: I'd love a goldendoodle that has that shaggy, can't see its eyes, floppy teddybear look. What generation should I get? What are the pro's and con's? What do you guys recommend, I'm completely lost and I have an appointment with the breeder by end of week.

Thank you very much!!
S.

[Stella]

He's lovely, I like the straighter coated doodles!

[Sarah]

I want the one at the top too! I love his facial expression!!!

[Jennifer Tramell]

I might be able to help a little.  I have done some research because I have a  f2 and yet have also seen that most breeders don't breed the f2s.  This puzzled me since it seemed that breeding 2 typical goldendoodles would give a litter of typical goldendoodles, so why aren't breeders doing this? Here's what I've learned:

There are 2 genes which give a doodle the "doodle look".  One is a curly coat gene, the other is a facial furnishings gene.  The poodle carries 2 copies of the curl gene and 2 copies of the furnishings gene.  The golden retriever carries 2 copies of non-curl and 2 copies of non-furnishings.

Puppies get 1 gene from each parent, so, EVERY f1 gets a curl and non-curl, a furnishings and non-furnishings.  The curl gene is obvious, the furnishing gene controls the beard, moustache, eyebrows.  Interesting to note that whereas the shedding seems linked to the curl, there isn't an identified shedding gene.

For an f2, you have 2 parents who each have a curl/non-curl and furnishings/non-furnishings.  Some pups will get both copies of the curl, some will get 1 copy of curl, some will get both copies of non-curl.  The same with the furnishing gene.  This is why you have a greater spread in what the f2s look like - some curly with whiskers, some straight with flat faces, and some in between.

For an f1b, you will have more coat consistency because, again, they are bred back to the poodle and each pup will have at least 1 copy of the curl and furnishings.

I have seen some pups listed as F2 who are actually F1b.  The seller is not aware of the "breed" standards as listed on Goldendoodles.com and they assume that since one of the parents is a goldendoodle, this is a second generation. 

As an interesting side note, the F2b can also be a variable generation depending on if the f1b parent possesses both copies of the curl & furnishing genes. 

My kids studied the Punnett Square last year and we experimented with goldendoodle traits rather than the pea? traits listed in their lesson.  It was fun to play around with what kinds of pups would come from what kinds of parents.  Genetics is more understandable when you can pet your subjects :-)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is a great explanation, Jennifer, thank you for posting it. 

[Sarah]

What amazing support I have on here from you all and your doodles!! Thank you so much. I've been reading each post as they have come in today and last night & can't tell you all how helpful this information has been. I feel a lot more confident now with this knew knowledge! There was so much about this breed I knew nothing about. It's kind of interesting all the information that's on the web about goldendoodles. There's many different sites saying 2 different things and it's hard to know what to believe or not. I appreciate this blog because you all are actually the owners of the dogs and litterly are giving me 'first-hand' info. Gives me more piece of mind.

I also realized I better get some books on how to take care of a new puppy & maybe get some basic training books that I can read. Do you all recommend anything else in preparation for a new puppy? (Aside from the norm - bedding, toys, bowls, leash). I've never had a puppy of my own and I want to make sure I do everything correctly. Also want to make sure I meet his needs.

One last question - the mini goldendoodle's - are they just the smaller breed out of the bunch? Will they not grow as big? Do a lot of people prefer them over an f1?

Additionally on a side note: I wanted to say- I don't really have too bad of allergies reguarding animals, except horses. My husband's last dog he had right after we first met, was a huge shedder, all I ever did was clean up after him. So I'm pretty use to shedding. It's a pain, but I'd love a shedder unconditionally nonetheless.

You all are just great. Really feeling confident now! I really do truly appreciate everyone who took the time to write in. Thank you, thank you!!

Always,
Sarah ;)

[Amy and Annabelle]

Annabelle is a mini f1b. I wanted a goldendoodle so bad but also wanted a smaller dog. When I found out they came mini too that sealed the deal. I brought her home at 10 weeks and she weighed less that 4lbs. The breeder estimated her litter to be 20-25lbs. She topped out at 14lbs, which was fine with me. I got the f1b mainly because of allergies and shedding. I had a golden retriever and he was a wonderful dog but an heavy shedder. Didn't really want to go through that again. Even though non shedding is not a guaranteed thing like if you get a pure bred poodle, I knew it was less likely than the f1. I looked at the pictures of the parents past litters and knew she wouldn't get too big. But some minis grow over 30-35lbs and I think at that point you have a medium. I also found my breeder within a few hours drive so I could see first hand the conditions of where the puppies were kept. It was a nice set up in the house among the family and hers was the only litter at the time. My breeder breeds the f1 also. So she had 3 dogs on premises, 2 dams and 1 sire besides the puppies. I wanted to steer away from the ones that had more than 1 litter on the ground at any given time. Good Luck with finding your puppy.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Sarah, this discussion can be found under the Help tab; it will give you some idea of what living with a doodle is all about: Considering a Doodle

If you have never had a puppy before, I strongly suggest that you go to the Puppy Madness Group and scroll through the discussions. It will give you a realistic idea of what you are in for with a doodle puppy. Trust us, they are not the cuddly "living stuffed animals" that many breeder websites would lead you to believe they are. They require a lot of time, a lot of attention, a lot of patience, and a lot of training.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And that discussion I linked contains info from all of us here, actual owners of all kinds of doodles, so you can trust it, lol. We're not trying to convince you or sell anything. :)

[Stephanie and Ragley]

I recommend a book called "The Puppy Primer"- it is rather basic, but does an excellent job of covering all of the foundational issues/subjects when raising a puppy. It's a great place to start!

[Sarah]

Hi Ginny,

Thank you for the different looking pictures of dogs. That was really helpful. I love reading an explanation and also having a picture as well to go with an exploitation. Really clears up any lingering confusion!!

In your opinion, what type of head would help to create that teddy bear look later in a puppy's life? And as for the coat, is it the less curly the puppy is, the more of that 'shaggy look' will grow out as an adult? And the curly puppy's hair - will get tighter curls as an adult, correct? Just want to make sure I have a tiny bit of knowledge myself to tell what a puppy might look like in adulthood. I know it's pretty impossible to truly know for sure, I just thought if I had the basics down it might be a little easier for me to pick.

Thank you!!!! The pictures really helped!!!!! They explained a lot!!

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Have you considered rescuing an older doodle?  That way you would be sure that you are getting the shaggy look that seems important to do.  I get it, I love a shaggy dog as well.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

A good breeder can walk you through what each puppy may look like and seeing the parents will help. Also, my first doodle, an american golden retriever/poodle mix has a very long thin snout and small head, but has enough facial furnishings to keep him looking very full headed and doodely. If I shaved his head he would look more like a retriever or a poodle.  So a lot can be done with the grooming as well.  My second doodle, both from same breeder, is an English retriever/poodle mix and has a much more square head, shorter snout and is very doodle looking even if I cut her face or head short. So a lot can be said for bone structure, but a lot can be done with grooming. FYi: this is why I and many others do our own grooming, as you will often read "He came out of the groomers looking like a poodle!"  Contact the recommended breeder and she will certainly educate you. If you need her name, just friend me and PM and I will send it to you if you haven't figured it out already. I think she is mentioned on my profile page as well. I almost wish I could have another of her dogs as what she has now is just adorable and I can testify that her dogs are VERY HEALTHY and she gave me exactly what I asked for with each one of mine. Both in appearance and personality.