E-collar Training

[Laura Bogar]

Ok I dont even want to post this because people might see me as a bad mom and inhumane, I am so afraid to post this in other groups I am apart of. I am thinking to start a training course with Sit Means Sit and they use their own e-collars. I am not new to training my reactive doodle and have seen all the bashing about how horrible some people see e-collars. I am really not looking for any bashing so I guess please don't leave a comment if you don't have any positive insight. Sorry to be so straight forward. If anyone uses e-collars please let me know what you have experienced and what I need to know and if you like them. Anything! Of course we will be working with a trainer for an hour to show me exactly how I should use it. I would mainly like to use it so we can go on peaceful walks, go to the dog park again, go to restaurants, and even be able to hike the trail off leash.

thanks,

Laura 

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

I personally have not used one however I know several people who have used them with success. I think it's important to know how to use them and have the proper guidance and those are the situations that I see the collar work for people. It seems that you are on top of it as far as training with someone so props to you. :) Again this is just my opinion, but if someone has the proper training and is using it for the proper reasons, I have nothing against people using them. I can't offer anything else though as I have not used one, just felt like offering some support. :) good luck to you and your doodle!

[Laura Bogar]

Thank You Jessica!

[Kimberly and Mikey]

Ok Mikey had done 6 weeks of a board and train when he was 4 months but there were still issues I needed to work on especially recall. I actually tried to use sit means sit and it went horribly bad! I know quite a few doodles that have them and do great but they all did long training or more board and train with the collar. We didn't get complete and proper collar training and within the next 24 hours he hid from us and was completely terrified. I did exactly as the trainer had told me in our session but I backfired. So I said never mind. I will give him some time and spend the money and do it right. Not all sit means sit are the same so you might have a better experience than me.

[Laura Bogar]

Hi Kimberly, thank you. I am concerned Heidi may become fearful and stressed and not understand the collar it's just very upsetting when she gets very reactive and does things that embarrass me. I just want to be able to take her to the park and out to eat with me etc :(

[Judith and Addie]

Please don''t take this as bashing. I have a reactive doodle. She is leash fear reactive to other dogs and an overly excited greeter. Please check out the Facebook page for reactive dogs. It is a private Facebook group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/reactivedogs/

There are many reasons that aversive methods are an especially poor choice for reactive dogs and I hope you consider looking into the group. But I wish you success no matter what course you take.

[Laura Bogar]

Thanks Judith, I requested to join :) I'm so glad there's a group out there with resources. I hope they add me soon.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I am part of this group, and there is lots of great information and support.  I can tell you that they will not be in favor of the e-collar....so be prepared.

[Laura Bogar]

thanks Jane :)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I have used an e-collar with Murphy who is a highly reactive Doodle who was also showing fear aggression behaviors.  I decided I need to try it after a particularly ugly confrontation with another dog and owner where I was unable to control Murphy and he dragged me several feet.  I remember calling my trainer and saying that I wanted to take this step...his response was that he would teach me to use it properly if that's what I was insisting on, but he thought it was not the best route for Murphy.  I didn't listen....I had dreams of a calm peaceful walk and I thought this was my answer.  So we bought the collar and started our training sessions.  I should point out that the e-collar is ONLY A TOOL, and how you use it is key.  We used all of our other strategies first, and the vibration/shock was for extreme situations.  My understanding is that with the Sit Means Sit method the stimulus is given at the time the command is spoken.  If that is true, I would have a problem with it.  Commands IMO should be spoken in an authoritative voice but with the expectation that it will be obeyed, especially if the dog has been show what is expected from that word or gesture.  The bottom line is that the e-collar only made Murphy more stressed and reactive...it was not a good choice for him.  I think it can be okay for some dogs when used correctly...but what I know of the Sit Means Sit method is not my definition of "correctly".    Ultimately you need to interview the trainer and really understand what this training program is going to be.  I believe this is a franchise and so each trainer could differ in terms of effectiveness.  Look for reviews and recommendations.  Talk to people who have used the trainer. 

If you do go this route I'd love to hear more about your experience.  I know how confusing it can be to find the right method....especially because all dogs are so different and what works for some is not a good fit for others.

[Kimberly and Mikey]

Yes that is how sit means sit works. You shock as you give command and shock again when they do as asked and praise at the same time. It was horrible for Mikey. I believe if the Training is done right it might work but I would definitely check out another trainer. I won't go on my rant but I was very unhappy with sit mean sit. Why am I shocking my dog as praise.

[Laura Bogar]

Thank you so much Jane. Does Murphy do well with other dogs besides when on the leash? My Heidi doe and goes to daycare regularly so I don't know why she freaks out on the leash. Iv been working on redirecting her with treats for awhile now. I just get frustrated because she only improves a little. I want to be able to take her out in public without worrying :(

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Yes, Murphy goes to Daycare and does great.  His reactiveness is only when he's on leash.  The trainers have told me that it is a fear based reaction for him, and that's why in his case the e-collar or prong didn't work...it made him even more excited and fearful.  The pain meant nothing to him in that state of mind.  Just yesterday I had him out for a walk and a woman with a highly reactive Golden Retriever approached us.  I yelled that Murph was also reactive, but that didn't stop her....she just kept right on walking toward us.  I saw Murphy's body language start to change and so I turned him and we walked a few steps (I also had my other Doodle with me) in the opposite direction and put them in a sit.  Then I gave treats....it took three for the other dog to get completely past.  At that point we continued our walk and there was never a reaction from Murphy.  I don't know if at some point Murph will begin to associate good things (treats) with meeting other dogs, and stop reacting...I sure hope so.  I'm still very careful where I walk him.  I avoid places where there are lots of dogs, because it's just not a fun walk when I have to constantly stop.  He has an amazing "heel" and focus on me when we're walking...until another dog gets close to him.  It is so clear that he is feeling threatened and so "corrections" at that point are enough to trigger an even more severe reaction with him.  I have no idea if this is the case with Heidi.  I would just caution you to watch how she responds to the use of any collar, but particularly an e-collar.  I'm not saying not to try it....just be be cautious.  Good luck and keep us posted.