Potty Breaks, Sleep, and Bedtimes

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Teddy just passed 6-months.  When he was 2-3 months old and not trained, I was taking him out 8-10 times a day.  Now, he rings a bell on the door when he has to go out and I would say he rings it 4-6 times a day now (plus another 1-2 times that I may take him out for a walk or Dog Park and he'll do a "quickie" on the way).

Now...the thing is I work from home PT and am a late-night person.  Teddy mimics my schedule; I   I normally turn in close to 3 AM though I am watching TV on my couch about 1 AM or so.  Teddy usually naps on the couch next to me and his last potty call is usually anywhere from 11:30 PM to 1:30 AM, depending.  He's getting plenty of sleep, it's just that instead of sleeping from 11 PM to 7 AM like most dog owners I know he sleeps from 1 AM to 9 AM on average. 

My Questions:

(1)  Recently, when we get up (about 9-9:30 AM since we turn in late) I have seen Teddy NOT have to go to the bathroom for up to 3 hours.  He usually goes back to napping.  This means close to 12 hours without having to go outside.  Is this normal for a 6-month old puppy?  He seemed to have better-than-expected bladder control even when he was 3 months old:  I would put him in his cage and he'd be dry 5-6 hours later.  I thought the rule of thumb was 1 hour per each month of age but he's more than double that even now.

(2)   The tired nature when he wakes up -- anybody else experience this ?  Should I take him out and "force" him to be more active even if he doesn't need to go out so he doesn't go right back to napping after we wake up (sometimes he'll eat a little breakfast, other times, no nibbling at all).

(3)  Will Teddy or an older Goldendoodle have to go out LESS as he ages ?  How much less ? 

I tried to put him to bed in my BR months ago in his cage but no luck after 1 or 2 successes.  I would love for him to turn in earlier even if it means I have to get out of bed at 6 or 7 AM and take him out then (that actually was the case the first few weeks I got him when he would fall asleep by 10 or 11 PM).  But he seems to have 'separation anxiety' and will not tolerate me being in another room for any length of time unless he's eating/playing with another dog/just came in to check on me/etc.

Maybe as he gets older he'll no longer be paranoid about me being in another room and not having a problem going to sleep earlier (and maybe in another room while I am still up) but for now, we're tied at the hip.

[Deanna & Desi & Cori]

Our Desi is now 14 months old. He sleeps in his crate (normal hours). As a tiny puppy, we'd whisk him out of his crate as quickly as we could to let him go potty. As he aged, the time interval between waking and peeing grew. Now, he can be up for hours before needing/wanting to go out. He lazes around, eats his breakfast and finally wants to go out.

Cori, currently 7 months old, has a completely different schedule. She'd go out and stay out if we'd let her.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Thanks Deanna....I didn't think that Teddy's unorthodox schedule was causing any physical problems but it's good to know.  He does sleep alot.  But if I open the door or someone rings a bell or I take him to a dog park, he shows plenty of energy.

Yes, when Teddy was 2-3 months (he was sleeping with me in the bed at 3 months or a bit before; he simply wouldn't take to the crate even 6" from my bed) he'd have to go out right away in the AM when he woke up.  I literally had 2-3 minutes to get some clothes on and gather his stuff or he'd have an accident.  As I understand it, when a puppy/dog is sleeping or even resting/napping, their bodily functions shut down so you don't have to worry about them soiling the bed or their crate.  But when they are up-and-around, that's when the clock can start ticking to go outside.  

After about 4 months or so, I knew I had about 7-10 minutes to get outside.  5-6 months, I have 15-20 -- if not more. Sometimes now I am about to go into the shower and Teddy rings the bells and I know now unless he is panicking and barking too that I can shower, get dressed, and he'll be OK if I can do it all in 20 minutes or so.  He usually lays down right outside the shower stall so that kinda confirms for me he's not panicking and about to go. If he ever keeps ringing the bells and/or barking furiously while I am showering, I guess I may have to reconsider.  :- )  LOL

As I type this, it's 1:20 PM and he hasn't asked to go out yet.  12 hours-plus...a new record !  :-)  LOL

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Another Question About Sleep:  I have tried playing ball with Teddy late at night to get him tired so he falls asleep faster/deeper and/or lets me move around freer without following me room-to-room.  I sometimes do this during a potty break about 10 or 11 PM.  I throw the ball 50-75 feet, he chases after it and runs back to me for a treat and we do this 10-12 times or so.

Does anybody think this is a good way to tire out a puppy/dog or does it get him riled up and more active ?  I know when Teddy comes back from the Dog Parks and has run around with other dogs he tends to sleep longer and deeper than a simple walk around my home.

I think I'm tiring him a bit, he's still only 6 months old.  My sister's schnoodle is 8 years old and when he grew up and would start to lay in his bed around 9 PM or so she'd say not to get him riled up by playing fetch or calling his name, etc....but I think since Teddy is up anyways for a few more hours my thing is different.

Any thoughts ?

EDIT:  And Teddy rings the potty bell just as I finish this post, so the streak comes to an end after  just over 12 hours !  LOL

[Haley, Yeti, and Phin]

Playing fetch is a great way to tire teddy out physically, however according to our teachers at puppy class, mentally exhausting them is better. You could try hiding a treat and having him try to "find it." Another good way to mentally wear him out would be to practice his commands (sit/stay/down). They also make puppy puzzles for dogs to play with. We got one for Yeti but he ended up just chewing it up.
Also, Yeti's sleep schedule is ALL over the place because my boyfriend works 2nd and I work Friday and Saturday nights. We just kind of go with the flow. When yeti was a much younger puppy we had to take him out immediately after coming out of his kennel, however now at 10 months we can go hours without taking him out.
Yeti cries when he is in his kennel and we are out and about in the house so we started covering it when he's supposed to be sleeping. It helps calm him down a lot and has majorly cut down on the crying. We had to let him cry it out a couple of times but after a few days he got much better. Not all dogs take well to a kennel though.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

FYI if anybody is interested.....Teddy went out 7 times yesterday....all times he rang the bell.....2 of them he did both #1/#2....all others #1 only....last call was 1:30 AM....and today, like yesterday, he didn't have to go out for a few hours after waking up. 

I'm hoping he'll be able to hold it in longer in a few months and maybe we get the breaks down to 3 or 4 times. That will be important if I have a traditional job with a normal commute.

[Lori, Winnie, Bob and Indie]

My Winnie is not a "morning dog," either. Even though her last potty is around 9:30pm, she is never antsy to go out in the morning. If I sleep in until 8am on weekends, she often times doesn't have to go potty right away. She only goes out because my other dog, Bob, doesn't have a bladder of steel like Winnie does. She has always been that way, ever since she was potty trained- not too excited about going out in the morning, and not too energetic, either. She would much rather lay around all morning!

I wouldn't "force" him to try be more active at certain times of the day unless his sleep/wake cycle is completely different than yours is. Most dogs tend to follow the natural rhythms of their owners....

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

He does, Lori.  But I usually am up to 3 or 3:30 AM.....I may fall asleep on the La-Z-Boy a bit before or after that (maybe even until 5 AM or 6 AM)...then off to the bedroom until 9 or 9:30 AM.  He'll yawn at 3:30 or 4 AM or 5 AM when I wake up on the couch and carry him back to the bedroom.  LOL

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

If you want Teddy on a more traditional schedule, you are going to have to actually train him.  If you want to crate him, you are going to have to train him to be in the crate - google it as there are games you can play to get him to enjoy his crate time, or, several times a day,  you can crate him and leave the room for a short time, come back in only if he is quiet, and give him a treat - increase the time. I like my dogs with me BUT, if they are totally your shadow, I don't think it is such a great thing.  If you get an outside job and he is used to being with you 24/7, a cold turkey transition to alone time or crate time is going to be rougher than if you work on it gradually now. 

As  to going potty often or less often. My mini can hold pee and poo for longer than my bigger dogs. He has always gone less often than one would have expected for his age and size.

[Haley, Yeti, and Phin]

Having him in his kennel might help him hold his bladder longer!

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Yeah, but I can't have him in his crate when I'm in the home.  He'll bark a long time (if he even does stop) and he'd be upset if he's in a crate near me and confined, esp. after 5 months of freedom. Plus, I kinda like having him bounce around the place -- did I get my 1st dog to have him in a cage while I am home in the apt ?  Could have saved alot of time and $$$ by watching one on YouTube ! LOL 

Yes, when I went to some ball games I left him in the crate and it stayed dry for 5 or 6 hours until I got back. This was in October when he was much smaller and not potty trained.  I bet he could go 8-10 hours if I had to leave him that long today.

Of course, lately when I went out, I was using a playpen and not his crate.  No accidents in his playpen (just like the crate)  but as I posted elsewhere, he's since been able to get out of his 24" and 34" playpens.  He then camps out near the apartment door, with access to about 1/5th of the living room + kitchen + bathroom (unless I shut door).  The few times this has happened, no accidents.

I think he realizes that he is not to go potty in the house -- he is great at ringing his bells when he needs to go out.  With a larger area to his domain since he escapes his playpens, my fear is that if he HAD to go -- or if he wanted to not hold it in -- he would go back to when he was 2-3 months old and just do his business in isolated areas of the house he has access to.  I'd be OK with that if he did it in the bathroom on a wee-wee pad, but he doesn't use them, he attacks them and tears them up.  LOL

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Sounds like you have answered your own questions. 

[Ginny Nightingale]

I will just add that when someone is not at home, the dog will sleep and be less alert--so they usually hold their pee longer--when you are there and they can get your attention by asking to go out, they will pee more frequently. I would also say that if you do not start training him to be apart from you for short periods of time using positive reinforcement, you will never be able to leave him, even if you get a job outside of your home...he will have a great deal of difficulty with that because you have never prepared him for that--dogs can live 13-15 years, so I hope you are happy with being "joined at the hip" for all that time.