Growling :( need help please

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

We have a two month old mini golden doodle who we got 2 weeks ago <3! Love him
To pieces . A few days ago he started this horrible habit of growling and snapping at you when you pick him up . He isn't hurt bc if he is sleepy and calm he doesn't mind being picked up . I tried flipping him over on his belly until he calmed down (submissive / dominance thing ) ...... that ended badly :( anyone have any experience with this ?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Elizabeth, did you mean to say that your puppy is only 2 months old and you've had him for two weeks? If that's true, a lot of the problem could be that he was taken from his litter too early. No puppy should leave the litter until they are at least 8 weeks old, and in fact, it's against the law to do so in half the states. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, what is the reason that the puppy needs to be picked up so often? Most dogs intensely dislike being picked up and carried, especially by children. And forget the flipping him over-alpha roll stuff, aggression begets aggression. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Part of the problem behavior is the result of his being taken from the litter before he learned bite inhibition among other things that puppies learn from their mothers and littermates. I would strongly suggest that you consult a really good trainer; ask your vet for references. I'm actually surprised that your vet didn't already refer you to one. Doodle Rescue has had a few cases like this and the vets were very concerned that without the right training and handling from day one, you could have a ticking time bomb. These kinds of puppies need very special handling and training designed by someone with a lot of experience in undersocialized pups taken from the the litter too early. 

[Ginny Nightingale]

I agree with Karen but also when you go to pick him up he might think it is another puppy playing and snaps at that --when I have 7-8 week old pups here, when they play, they sound like they are killing each other! I would approach it differently--bring the pup something like a piece of his kibble, throw it down in front of him, make sure he sees you and then quietly try to pick him up but get his attention first and let him come to you. Startling him may be causing the behavior and that is what they would do if another pup came up behind them. 

This will pass but not until you do the work to make up for getting a pup at 6 weeks--a lot of them are weaned at 6 weeks though, so I think the milk supplement is unnecessary.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Elizabeth, I would not let the kids pick him up at all for now.  It is much easier to have a blanket across the board rule than to try to mediate how much is too much.  Kids are notoriously grabby and not especially gentle - they don't really get the difference between their toys and a living being.  The kids need to learn how to approach the dog and how to behave with it as much as the dog needs to learn. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Studies have shown that puppies taken from the litter this young may struggle with behavioral issues all their lives, including aggression and fear biting issues. They have missed the crucial two week period during which their mother gives them their first lessons in submission, compliance, social order, and social ranking.

Here is an article with information on this topic. 

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Risks-of-Removing-Puppies-too-Early-fro...

From the article:

Why Puppies Should Stay With Mother and Litter-mates until 8 weeks

Puppies learn a variety of fundamental life lessons as they grow up along with their mother and litter-mates. Between the age of three and six weeks, puppies learn important behavioral patterns specific to dogs. For instance, through play they learn about different body postures and follow the lines of canine communication. Between six to eight weeks, puppies also learn how to inhibit their bite when playing, a very important life lesson which will affect the puppy's future behavior.

Puppies learn bite inhibition through play. When a puppy bites too hard, the other puppy will likely make an acute yelp, followed by withdrawal from play. The biting puppy therefore learns that in order for play to continue, he must watch how much pressure he uses to bite. Failure to learn appropriate bite inhibition, will therefore result in a puppy who does not measure its bite. This means that it will likely hurt another dog even if playing, and most of all, will definitely hurt a human's sensitive skin if the owner does not take measures to teach the puppy bite inhibition.

Puppies also learn from the age of six weeks how to be submissive. The mother dog teaches the puppy basic manners and she may discipline unacceptable behaviors by growling, snarling or snapping lightly. The puppies after a few corrections learn more acceptable behaviors, and afterwards, all it takes is the mother to give a mere glare to get a point across. When puppies fail to learn discipline from their mother, they tend to become very difficult to train.

According to Sue St Gelais, puppies removed from the litter too early are prone to be nervous with a tendency to bark and bite. They are also less likely to accept discipline and may also be aggressive to other dogs. In her own words, ''Generally speaking, a puppy take away from its mother and litter mates before eight weeks of age, may not realize its full potential as a dog and a companion. To maximize the mental and psychological development of puppies, they must remain in the nest with their mother and litter mates until eight weeks of age.

Singleton puppies and puppies removed too early, may also have a hard time tolerating frustration. Because they never had to struggle over resources such as mom's nipples, they aren't much used to not get what they want and self-sooth.

Remedial Work for Dog Owners

Not all is lost however. Dog owners may invest in some remedial work to overcome the problems common with puppies who have lacked discipline from their mom. Of course, dog owners are not asked to growl, snarl or snap at their puppies. Humans know better and can resort to more intelligent strategies for assuming the leadership role.

A good place to start is to have a dog trainer evaluate the puppy and determine if it can be a good candidate for puppy classes. Puppy classes can be beneficial in many ways. The puppy may learn that playing rough is unacceptable and, therefore may learn some basic canine etiquette practices. It is important to work on this now, that the puppy is small and not 80 pounds later, when the dog may turn out being a liability.

Fundamental is for the owner to assume a strong leadership role. A good leader controls resources. Therefore, a puppy should learn the ''nothing in life is free'' training program. The puppy needs to learn to earn most of its privileges by being asked to sit before being fed, pet and thereafter. Nothing is granted or given for free.

Ongoing training is fundamental to strengthen the bond between dog and owner and to continue demonstrating leadership. When leadership is implemented when it lacked before, the puppy may object to it at first, but eventually, the puppy learns to respect the dog owner's role of authority."

And another one:

http://www.snowdog.guru/true-cost-early-removal-puppy-mother-litter...

From the article:

Betwrrn 6 and 8 weeks of age, puppies that once climbed all over Mom, nibbled and chewed on her, and hung and swung from her ear by their teeth, are now physically shown that this behavior is less tolerated. For the very first time in their lives the puppies have behavioral expectations placed onto them by a dog that out ranks them socially. This is the very first situation where puppies learn to deal with being asked to comply and submit. Up until now puppies did pretty much whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted to it.

They also miss the interactions with their littermates which are the crucial building blocks for a dog to be able to understand the complexities of social hierarchy, rank, and order. Without these experiential social opportunities to learn appropriate social behaviour, a dog enters adolescence and adulthood devoid of necessary and crucial social skills training.

And sadly, dogs that have been removed from their family unit before they are 8 weeks old, these socially immature dogs go on to be the dogs that are involved in most of the social skirmishes at the dog park, at doggy day care, and in one-on-one chance dog encounters. These poor dogs don’t stand a chance in social situations because they are clueless about what appropriate and polite social dog behavior should look like. They never had a chance to see it modeled by their mother or their siblings and they never had a chance to practice modelling these behaviors themselves.

These puppies will often exhibit a myriad of psychological issues

They lack the confidence to handle new situations, people, and often are not able to have proper social interactions with other dogs because of crippling fears and phobias. Even when you take these dogs to obedience classes and give them socialization opportunities, these are the dogs that will become fear aggressive and be at an increased chance of becoming a fear biter. Often through constant management, these issues can be lessened but rarely are the issues completely eliminated.

These dogs often default to fear biting

They do not necessarily see this behavior as being an offensive attack. In their minds they are defensively attacking other dogs. Their fear is so great that they preemptively launch an attack of one bite and then they retreat, hoping to drive off the other dog (or person). They melt down and are easily overwhelmed by anything new in their environment. These dogs are uncomfortable and just want to be left alone.

Please take this seriously and seek out a professional who can help you lay out a training plan that will help your puppy grow into a normal, healthy, happy, confident dog. 

[Binny P]

Our puppy, who is about 13-14 weeks, does a similar thing. We try not to pick him up too much, but especially before he was done with his immunizations had to just to get him from point A to point B. It normally happens when he is too excited and worked up -- I just sing him a little Grumpy Puppy song and put him down as soon as I can. Unless he is in high zoomie phase, once he is on the ground he usually chills back out. But if he is in demon mode, all bets are off and he will keep growling/barking/lunging, so I turn my back/walk away for a few seconds/or pop him in his pen for a little chill out time! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It appears Elizabeth has deleted all of her responses and left DK. 

[Stella]

:(

[JACKS MOM LORIE ANN]

Thats what i was thinking :(

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I am sorry for that as she probably needs the advice lovingly given here.

[Ginny Nightingale]

Karen--this is great information but a person can do the same thing--our momma dogs go home to their families once the pup is weaned at between 6 and 7 weeks--they are of course, still with littermates for another two weeks and we spend a lot of time with them and correct them when their play gets out of hand--our pups make wonderful pets and even service or therapy dogs, so I have to be a bit skeptical about the material you have just posted here. I agree that the puppies should not be sent home until at least 8 weeks--we usually wait until 9 weeks---but the mommas often leave the pen the minute they are done eating and do not hang around with the pups, whom they find very annoying! That is where I come in!