Aggressive Doodle

[Emily]

Hi all, 

I'm new here on the forum but have read a few threads about aggressive doodles and hoping I can get some help with/advice for our W. 

We brought home our F1b Goldendoodle pup in early August, and he is smart, spirited, and friendly. He's now about 4 1/2 months.

He's super trainable and great 95% of the time, but the other 5% he becomes almost a completely different dog. When he goes on walks or finds something we don't give him (trash, napkins, socks, etc.), he gets super possessive of the item and aggressive. He's bit my sister approximately 10 times, as well a friend and our building super. These are attack bites vs puppy bites. 

We've worked with a dog behaviorist and W's been to puppy kindergarten but it's still a recurring issue. The behaviorist thinks it's a temperament issue so could be something W struggles with the rest of his life. We're working on "re-conditioning" him so he forgets he ever bit people but he's continued to bite. 

Has anyone else experienced a similar issue with their pup? We're trying to figure out if we can continue training him and if it's solvable. It's a very sad decision but we're also trying to determine if another home outside of the city would help so he has more room for exercise and less stimulants (we live in NYC). 

My sister and I don't have kids yet but both want to eventually so that's why we're especially concerned. 

Any similar experiences you can share would be very helpful or experiences re-homing a dog who has shows this type of behavior. We haven't heard of this type of behavior and are hoping to hear some happy ending stories. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Emily, how old was your puppy when you brought him home? Dogs who leave their litters before the age of 8 weeks miss a crucial part of their natural training, bite inhibition. I'm sure if you've seen a qualified dog behaviorist (and that would mean one who has a DVM vet degree in addition to post-graduate specialization) this has been mentioned to you. 

If in fact you have not seen a veterinary behaviorist, one who is certified by the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists,  I would strongly suggest you do see one before you make any other decisions. 

As a co-founder of Doodle Rescue Collective, I can tell you that we have seen many doodles, puppies and adults alike, with behavioral issues like this, but with the right kind of training and exercise program, these issues can be overcome. It does take a lot of work, though, and absolute consistency by everyone who deals with the puppy, all the time. Four months is very very young, and if you are willing to commit 100% to turning this around, it is possible, but first, you need an accurate assessment from a qualified behaviorist. 

If that's not a possibility, please contact Doodle Rescue Collective to safely rehome your puppy into a carefully pre-screened, experienced home. 

[Emily]

Hi Karen, 

We brought him home at 7 1/2 weeks, so just a little shy of the 8 week mark. The breeder mentioned he was showing some signs of over-confidence/aggression when we picked him up and showed us a few exercises to start with him ASAP. 

Agree, he's so so young, which is part of what is making this such a hard decision. Our dog behaviorist recommended we meet with a veterinary behaviorist as well. It's good to know that resources like Doodle Rescue Collective exist, though. 

Thanks again. 

[Ginny Nightingale]

I agree with Karen---but is he food motivated? You can try trading with a really high value treat (like bacon) when he takes something from you--if that works and he releases the item, you can get him in the habit of "drop it" and he will give up on the resource guarding, which is what you call this behavior. As soon as he drops it, you say GOOD DROP IT! and give him the treat immediately.

Also, never chase him for the item--always go to the treats and make a noise he will associate with that treat--a whistle or a word and then let him come to you, once you have shown him what you have. Or let him smell it--if he is food motivated, his behavior will quickly turn around.

Then you must make him work for everything, dinner, treats, walk outside, etc---he needs to sit or lie down or some behavior for anything he gets--it is all about establishing yourself as his leader....puppy kindergarten is just a start and not a very effective one--this is a smart dog who needs a lot of training. When he was with his littermates and he got hold of a toy, he probably ran with it and maybe even growled if the others tried to take it--if he was an alpha in the litter, he probably won the argument. Now, however, he is not in a litter and you are not a littermate--time to learn a new set of rules!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Absolutely. What Ginny is describing is a training method known as "Nothing in Life is Free", and it works very well, as long as you absolutely consistent all the time. Here's a link to a great explanation of NILF training: http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I do also think that sufficient exercise may be part of the problem. Doodles are a mix of sporting breeds, and sporting breeds need to run off-leash, which can be very difficult in a city apartment. Puppies of all types are bundles of energy, and that needs an outlet. Leash walks are simply not enough for most doodles. In addition, I'm guessing that you and your sister are not independently wealthy, lol, and do need to work, so the puppy is probably alone and confined a good part of the time? That can also lead to too much pent-up energy.

I know there are people who can successfully raise happy, healthy doodles in urban apartment settings, but it can be challenging. It's perhaps significant that DRC does not adopt to urban apartment environments, although that's partly because most of our dogs are adults who come from suburban and rural settings. 

[Emily]

Hi all,

Thanks for the input! We've been having W work for treats since day 1, thankfully. He's learned lots of tricks and commands this way! W gets about half his food from the day in treats! 

His guarding very rarely happens indoors, so when he has something in his mouth on the street our methods are 1) keep walking briskly as puppies have a hard time keeping something in their mouths/chewing while walking 2) lure him with a "jackpot" of treats or if we have high value treats, give those to him. 

My sister is able to take him to work 3x a week - on those days he's walking about 2 miles roundtrip to her office. We have a dog walker coming twice a day the other two days and goes to the dog park at least once those days.

We're making sure to keep his mind and body stimulated by learning lots of tricks and commands - he knows sit, stay, come, down, high five, play dead, spin, crate up, and roll over. He's so eager to learn and please.

It's almost like he's two different dogs, the behavior is so different than his usual high spirited self. 

[Rosella T]

Hi Emily! I also have a doodle in NYC and he definitely exhibits the same behavior as your dog when he finds something on the street that he doesn't want to give up. My doodle, Omar, has improved SIGNIFICANTLY. I taught him to "drop it" on command and he does it now 90% of the time. I never try to take what's in his mouth forcefully because that is what causes the aggression to kick in. Omar's most high value treat is cheese, so there was a long period where if he found something on the street I'd either have cheese on me and ask him to drop it outdoors or just let him carry his garbage home, then take the cheese out of the refrigerator and ask him to drop it and he would. Then I'd praise him and give him the cheese.

With this particular issue I found it best not to ever "fight" him for his treasure. Just make sure you never leave the house without a treat in your pocket and if W picks something up, ask him to drop it. Omar has gotten so much better! He's now 3 years old and hardly ever picks up dirty napkins or other garbage anymore. He did find a stick the other day and another dog tried to take it from him and Omar got snappy and growly but I got in front of him, made him to look at me and sit. Then I just acted like I didn't care that he had a stick and he eventually just dropped it of his own accord on our way home. The more you act like what he has in his mouth is worth fighting over, the more your dog will want to hang on to it. 

We practiced the drop it command over and over and over inside and outside the apartment. Trust me, this will get better! Just be patient, stern, and consistent and keep practicing the "drop it" command. W is at an age when dirty napkins are a treasure to be guarded with his life, but he will outgrow it, and training consistently will speed that up.

I totally know what you mean about him being two different dogs, because our Omar is the sweetest, most affectionate dog I've ever known. He loves everyone he meets and he's a teddybear 95% of the time. The issues we're still working on with Omar are his jumping and his barking but neither of these is aggressive and is improving slowly but surely.

Oh and we got Omar when he was 9 weeks old, so in our case, it wasn't a question of being taken away from the litter too early.

I hope this helps!

[Wendy and Myla]

The only good thing in this post, in my opinion, is that your puppy is very young!  I agree with all of the advice given 100% but wanted to stress that I know it's very hard to "reward" a puppy with high value treats when they growl or indeed bite!  I couldn't wrap my head around that!  We had a couple incidents when Myla was young where she would snap at us when she was licking out a lasagna container.  We were so upset that she did that!  You just want to give a time out or yell or whatever ---definitely not treat with another treat but you have to think of the overall picture.  If you say "drop it" in a stern voice and bribe her with a very high value treat, she will associate "drop  it" with the treat.  That is the goal - it's training and the eventual goal.  You now know that she resource guards, so work with that while she is so young!  Give her opportunities to guard and have very high value treats (we used liver) but now I would use "lamb lungs" - Myla will do tricks we didn't know she could do for those :) )  You really have to work hard on this - like absolutely try to get her to "guard" so she will "drop it" on demand!  Eventually, you won't have to give her the high value treat!

[M Kol]

We took our puppy to a live-in trainer who conditioned her for approximately two weeks.  He was disciplined but humane with her, and she has been very well-behaved since her training.  Apparently, he works with all kinds of dogs, sweet little ones, and large aggressive ones.  I can't say enough about the training.

[M Kol]

I will add the trainer's residence training was not the only training she received. We also took her to a puppy class that lasted weeks/months (it began before the live-in, and continued after), and we also took her to a dog obedience class for months.  They were three separate training courses with three separate entities. We also spent much time training her ourselves.  The trainer's residence training was the most dramatic, but each one of the items were crucial to the overall good ending.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Interesting problem....I've got a somewhat similar situation with Teddy...at the dog park or on a walk (usually late at night, sometimes the last walk of the day) he will suddenly turn aggressive and:

• Tug at my shoelaces to untie them
• Grab the bottom of my jeans/pants and try and bite/grab them
• Jump up high many times and try and bite-grab my shirt or arm or the round end of the leash in my hand.
• I have to "block" him with my hand/arm and try and grab him and hold him.  If I can do that he'll usually calm down -- in fact, he'll often start kissing/licking my face and this tells me he has burnt himself out

If I had to describe it I would call it a panic attack.  It's like a temper tantrum, one which he's had probably had on-and-off since about 8 months old (he's now 16 months old).  He didn't do it before when he was much smaller, not that I can recall.

What is strange is:  I'm taking him outside, which he wants....I'm not trying to take him inside during these walks, or out of the dog park or doing anything that would cause him to be upset....it happens out of nowhere and is not dissimilar to when he gets aggressive with other bigger dogs at the Dog Park when he gets tired of being picked on or prodded to play or run and then snaps at a bigger dog (I have to be wary of a bigger dog retailiating against him).

It reminds me of late-night walks that sort of tire him out when he is not willing to lay down besides me.....a final walk will tire him out or get whatever is in him causing him to be playful and "up" to fade and then he'll curl up in a ball next to me on the couch for sleep.

The few times he's had a walker or stayed at a doggie hotel, they have not experienced this.  Maybe he's too excited by someone new walking him and he only will try this temper tantrum with me.

I'm hoping it's a young dog/puppy thing and he won't be doing this at age 3 or 4 or 5.  

[Sebastian and Chester's Mom]

I’m sorry I’m so late to this thread, and sorry that you are having issues with your puppy. It can be so hard when our pups aren’t acting like themselves.

Each of my dogs has behavioral issues, which has lead me to work with a number of different behaviorists, and I agree that they are not all the same. I would strongly encourage you to seek the help of either a board-certified Veterinary Behaviorist,
http://www.dacvb.org/about/member-directory/
OR a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (PhD in a field related to animal behavior Plus a rigorous post-doctorate fellowship).
http://www.animalbehaviorsociety.org/web/applied-behavior-caab-dire...

In my experience, their rates are comparable to those of trainer-type behaviorists, but their treatment plans are more individually tailored to the individual dog’s specific needs, and are thus, more effective.

Being that W also has a human bite history, I would also encourage you to familiarize yourself with the Dunbar Bite Scale.
https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/was-it-just-a-little-bite-or-mor...

The next thing I would encourage you to do is learn dog body language. There is a great app for that called DogDecoder
http://www.dogdecoder.com

Finally, there are two books I would encourage you to read. They aren’t tutorials on how to treat W’s resource guarding, per se, but they will help you understand him better and learn to communicate with him better. They are both by Patricia McConnell. The first one is For The Love of a Dog, which talks about the emotional lives of dogs, and talks a lot about body language, including a great section with photographic demonstrations of important gestures to know. The second one is The Other End of the Leash, which covers relationship building through mutual communication. Dr. McConnell also has a wonderful website with a fantastic learning center.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com