Is potty training hopeless?

[Stacy]

Yesterday I spent half the day dog proofing the garage so Maggie can stay out there when I leave. I had two thoughts behind this. The first is that the carpet really needs a break. The second is that hopefully she would not want to potty on the concrete. I thought maybe she thinks the carpet is a good place to go because it's absorbent like grass, and it just disappears, so it doesn't count. 

I was out to dinner for 3 1/2 hours - so I feel like it's absolutely not that she was left too long and couldn't hold it. She peed and pooped in the garage. She has also been pooping in the house when I leave her home, but honestly that issue is a distant second to the pee problem. 

I left 9 - 10 hours after she ate breakfast, and we had taken an hour long walk and played out in the back yard for hours, so she had ample opportunity to go potty. I've never been able to get her to potty on leash though. 

I wonder if the pottying has anything to do with anxiety about being left alone. She wasn't nearly as happy about being left in the garage as she is being left in the house. And she doesn't seem to have separation anxiety, but maybe that has something to do with it? 

Also, the trainer threw another fly in my plans the other day when he was here. We are working diligently on crate training. She's doing well in the crate with the door shut as long as I sit on the couch next to her. But he said that some dogs have learned to potty in their crates, so what if I finally get her crate trained and she potties in her crate too? 

I know other people have rescue dogs and they don't all just potty everywhere. And she's only 18 months old. She's not too old to learn new things. But I'm 100% stumped on how to correct when I'm not here. Even the trainers only suggestion is to just work really hard on getting her crate trained. Do I just need to resign myself to managing the situation, or is there hope that I can fix it? There's got to be some sort of solution. I'm really not having a good time with the carpet cleaner. And no matter how much I clean it doesn't really fix it. 

[Amy and Annabelle]

Was she potty trained at the foster home? If she was it is probably anxiety. She might think that every time you leave, you're not coming back. She doesn't understand. I think with her it is just going to take a long time.

[Stacy]

She wasn't really potty trained at her foster home either. But they had tile floors and left potty pads out for her, so she was happy enough to choose the soft surface to potty on. I have a whole house full of carpet and have been completely unsuccessful at containing her to the kitchen with the linoleum, so I don't even think a potty pad would be helpful. 

She doesn't understand, and I get that. I'm not angry with her, but sometimes it's so hard not to be frustrated with the situation. I'm at the point where I'm starting to have anxiety about leaving the house because I know what I'm going to come home to. I've been taking her with me as often as I can, but sometimes dogs just can't go. People already call me a hermit. I can only imagine what they'll say when I refuse to leave the house because the dog will have an accident. She has all the time in the world. It's just hard when I feel like we aren't even headed in the right direction.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Our first dog was a rescue and pooped in the house as soon as we left him there alone. I am sure it was his making sure everyone knew this was HIS home. Our fix was the garage with the door open to the backyard until we could put in a doggy door.  A friend told us to move the house poop to the yard where we wanted him to go and leave it there, letting him watch us do that.  We could pick up the old poop but had to always leave the fresh one in the right place.  He got that pretty quickly although I don't know if it was weeks or days. It was 40+ years ago.

Try putting a pee pad outside where you want her to pee if that is what she is used to using.  There is a plastic holder for the pad that totally contains the pee.  This could be left indoors and in the garage her and gradually moved to the outside one and then removed. 

At 18 months old she should be able to hold it for 8 hours if she just went.  You could try confining her to the smallest bathroom with a pee pad as far from the door as possible also

All of these are just possible fixes, one or more may work.  I once scrubbed a small laundry room with a doggy door every morning with bleach for seven months.  That's how long it took for the darn puppy to learn to also go outside at night.  I was at my wit's end and it was tile not carpet, so I totally sympathize with you.  Hang in there.

[Stacy]

It's definitely a challenge. My trainer said it can take dogs who are scared like this years to get into a good place. It seems like we are taking one step forward and five steps back. I was hand feeding her and playing games and that was going really well. Then I started adding time in the crate, and we're not talking about a lot of time, like 5 minutes with the door closed. And now when Katie is in her crate eating Maggie acts like I'm going to beat her. Tail tucked, slinking around. She won't take food from my hand again. Sometimes I feel like despite my best intentions I'm breaking her instead of helping her. I've never so much as raised my voice at her. She has nothing to be afraid of, but I can't undo whatever came before. I know they say that dogs live in the moment and that they don't worry about the past, but there's something that is keeping her from enjoying her present. I just wish I knew how to make it better.

I'm hanging in there! Thanks for the suggestions. I'm hoping that something will work. She's such a sweet, gentle girl. I just wish she could shed some of this baggage and live her best life.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Glad you are willing to hang in!  Different dog from laundry room puppy This one was adult male rescue - who pooped in house.  He took forever to get used to crate.  Just put in house and closed the door and left it for awhile, then opened door.  Then put feed bowl near the door,, then feed bowl in the crate, door tied open back as far as it would go.  Then untied door, (old borrowed crate, goofy door, so the door was a big deal).  Finally let me close and open door...Just kept at it.  This dog finally flew several times in the crate from San Jose to Detroit.  Did give him a little tranquilizer from vet for flight. Patience, silence and nonchalance on my part like I did not care what he did. 

 

[Stacy]

That basically sounds like what I'm doing with her crate training too. She's doing well with the door closed for short periods of time, but I'm afraid to push it too hard. We just keep practicing. I hope that at some point it just becomes no big deal. It's encouraging to hear that that you were able to get your dog comfortable enough to fly in the crate. I think we'll get there. Eventually.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I really think you're going to have to start from scratch as if you were housebreaking a puppy.  I really don't think Maggie understands what she's supposed to do....everything is new and scary to her right now.  If you were potty training a puppy these would be the steps....

-Establish a “potty break” routine and stick to it.  This begins with the time you get up each morning and the ends with the last trip outside for the night. Especially at first, this may not perfectly coincide with your own personal schedule.

-Constantly supervise her for “signs” when she has to go outside. To succeed at housebreaking, everything that looks like a “sign” should be taken seriously (especially at first) — even if that means you’re taking your dog outside 20 times a day!

-Confine her (like in a crate or a bathroom) when you cannot supervise him. She is less likely to go where she sleeps.  I would put her in the crate regularly with you right there in the room at first and then leave for five minutes, and then 10, etc. until she is okay in there for longer periods when you have to leave.  I would not react to her at all when she's in the crate.  The experience should be as "matter of fact" as you can make it.

-Clean any soiled areas inside the house very well to remove the smell and prevent repeat accidents. Dogs continue to go where they’ve gone before.  This one is so important.  Nature's Miracle saved our lives when we were housebreaking our guys.

-I really think you need to go outside with her every time.  You need to watch when she potties so that you can praise and reward her immediately.  This is how she'll figure out exactly what you are expecting her to do.

For now if you have to leave the garage seems like a good alternative, although cleaning a concrete floor and removing all traces of odor will be a challenge. 

I'm sure this is frustrating right now....but she sounds wonderful and it will all be worth it.  Good luck.

[Carol and Truffle]

Jane, Stacy will of course weight in. But I remember reading that as an 18-month old rescue who has great fear of the crate, Maggie won't tolerate crating at the moment. Stacy has a trainer who is working with them.

I can understand Stacy's frustration, because Maggie's history prevents her from doing all the stuff that we do with a brand new puppy who usually hasn't yet formed all the fears from poor treatment.

[Stacy]

You're absolutely right, of course. And I'm pretty proud to say that I've been doing all the things on the housebreaking list. And honestly, I don't have any complaints about how things are going when I'm home. I recognize Maggie's potty face and I've been able to redirect her and take her outside before she has an accident. I definitely wouldn't say that she's potty trained, but I feel like if I continue to prevent accidents and take her out 20 times a day she will get that part. It's really just the accidents when she's home alone that I'm struggling with. 

I will keep working on the crating. I think it's the only real option. The garage is a good stopgap, but isn't ideal for a number of reasons. Sometimes I think the cameras do me more harm than good. She isn't frantic in the garage, but she's clearly not happy. She was lying on the step in front of the door moaning like someone was killing her. 

Part of me wants to try putting her in a diaper. Maybe she would think it was weird and she couldn't go potty with that thing on. But it would probably traumatize her. 

She really is just the sweetest girl. I wish I could take all of her fear from her. I just keep telling her that nothing bad will ever happen here.

[Andrea, Belle and Honey]

The thought of Maggie moaning in the garage is so sad. Do you leave Katie in the garage with Maggie? Is there a way to temporarily make the garage more comfy for her while you continue to work on teaching her that carpet is not to be potted on and that you always return to her when you go out? Perhaps an old thrift store armchair for her to snuggle in?  Make the garage seem more like a living space?  Maybe hiding some smelly high value treats for her to find to help her over the initial shock of your leaving? Did you do the introductory process of leaving her in the garage for increasing minutes? It must be so hard to be doing all this work with Maggie and still feel as if she is unhappy. Kudos to you.

[Stacy]

Just don't feel too badly for Maggie hanging out in the perfectly comfortable dog friendly garage. She feels the same way about being asked to stay in the kitchen. She just doesn't want to be confined. I feel badly that she doesn't love it, but she's definitely not being mistreated. I'm pretty sure she would sound just as pathetic if I left her in my bedroom. 

It is hard. I thought that my love would just fix all of her fears, and it turns out that it's going to be more work than that. But we will get through it. It's so much easier on the days I don't have to go to work and I can just stay home with her. 

[Amy and Annabelle]

Two week vacation from work, do nothing but get Maggie only going outside to do her business. I would even give a high value treat every time she does it outside, and give lots of praise. By the time you go back to work, it will be closer to being a habit. I know, easier said than done.