Throw Chain AKA Rattle Chain Training?

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

Has anyone used the training technique with a throw chain (AKA a Rattle Chain)? I was just wondering how it worked for you?

If anyone is interested of what or how it works:
We went to the trainer yesterday with Riley for "step 2" after the tethering of last week. Which I am so glad it is over, it is hard to be tied to a puppy for 10 days! The trainer has us using a small alloy link chain (6 links long) to rattle when Riley is doing something we do not like.

He started by conditioning Riley to not like the noise. He did this by tossing it at his rump twice. As he did this, as soon as it hit Riley's rump I was to crouch down and call RIley like I had no idea what happened either but I was going to protect him from it. The first time Riely yelped, not because it hurt him, but because it scared him. He came flying at me when I called him.We did that twice and then moved on to setting Riley up for things he should not do. Such as stealing a glove off the ground, and opening the door and letting him move towards it to run outside. As soon as he made a move towards doing it we rattle the chain and Riley stops dead in his tracks. The whole process took less than 45 minutes.

We were told to stop and get more of the chain and put them in strategic places around the house so it is always in reach when we need it. It is important to use the same chain and same amount of links so it makes the EXACT noise as the conditioned noise. He also told us that very rarely will you ever have to throw or toss the chain at the puppy, the noise of rattling it will stop him dead in his tracks.

Well, I was a little skeptical of him stopping in his tracks when he is in hot pursuit of the our two cats. Or trying to bite at the pant legs of the kids,but IT DID!! I just rattled that chain on the counter, not even picking it up just moving it around on the counter and saying "unh unh".

So I was wondering if anyone else used this technique or something similar and how well it works or worked for them?

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

I don't use it to teach him sit or that kind of stuff. That I just use cherrios for and he will do anything for a cheerio.... :) Which he already knows sit, down, wait, house, bed. outside and we are working on roll over.

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

Like things you don't want him to do. I should have been more specific. Anytime I say "no" and it doesn't work I rattle the chain and say "no". So he is chasing the cat, I could say "no" all day as loud or as soft as I want, he is not going to stop, right? Well I rattle the chain and say "no" and he stops, comes to me and I give him praise and a treat. He is not frightened of the sound or scared in anyway. He runs right to me just like the trainer conditioned him to do the first time he tossed it at his rump. Again it is alloy and 2.5 oz, it really doesn't hurt.

Same thing for biting or nipping at something he is not supposed to. How often does "no" work? Never. Now if I say no and he does not stop I rattle the chain and say "no". He stops.

It is just meant for things you don't want him to do. Eventually you are supposed to just say "no" and he will listen, and the chain is not needed anymore.

[Adina P]

Doesn't sound too bad to me. "NO" really needs to have some sort of consequence. Some dogs will stop just from a stern look or voice as that is consequence enough for them. For many "NO" is just a repetitive sound they hear all day and that is not much of a deterrent to hear or see an upset "mom." So I don't think it's all that bad to have conditioned him to stop what he's doing and come to you when he hears "NO" based on one planned, startling light chain toss.

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

I tried the spray bottle before we went to the trainer. The problem was you had to be close enough to hit him with the water. Also he didn't really care since he LOVES water. :)

Sounds very similar to what you are trying with the pot. Although I am not sure how easy it is to have pots all over the house???:)

The chain is a miracle, I swear. I was hoping to find someone that is using the same training method and instead have started a very poplular discussion. :)

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

Riley's biggest issue is he is a compulsive cat chaser. I have two and he is relentless.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I have never heard of this type of training method and I must admit that when I read this earlier today I was shocked and skeptical. I thought it would make a puppy very nervous and scared to the point that it would make a puppy scared of the Humans. Tonight I read all the postings and found it quite informative and it gave me time to really think about it.

Samantha has been on vacation too long - we almost declared jumping on people a thing of the past but here in Florida, most people are so excited to meet a Doodle they start with that high pitched "what a cute dog' and it sends her into a jumping frenzy. When I correct her the obvious non-dog people tell me 'it's okay, I like dogs'. The only way to stop her is to grab her to make her sit and I look like I am abusing her (which I am not). Then I go into the speech as to why it is not okay and by that time the damage has been done. I hope we will not have to start be back to square one. If I can't get Samantha back on track, then I may have to try this method, althought I am hoping we won't.

[Debbie and Thomas]

Someone lent me this harness-it is very comfortable for the dog. The leash attaches to a ring which is on the front of their chest, not their neck. You have total control of the dog when you are walking him and if he tries to jump up, just by gently holding him back as you greet people, he cannot jump up. It's great. I think it is called the "gentle leader" Not sure though.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yep, it's the "Gentle Leader Easy Walk" harness. I use it for Jackdoodle...saved my life. Our walks are now enjoyable instead of a nightmare, being dragged down the street. Many DK members love it.

[Adina P]

Pinch collar/pennies-in-can are technically "Positive Punishment" not "negative reinforcement" -- anything that ends with "reinforcement" means something you give (positive) or remove (negative) that REINFORCES the behavior and increases the chances it will happen again. When it comes to training/behaviorist stuff...negative has nothing to do with 'UNdesireable" but instead think of it as a + and - signs. + is positive and means you APPLY something. - is negative and means you take something away. The second word (punishment or reinforcement) has to do with whether it is applied/taken away to INCREASE or decrease a behavior.

But I agree with your point on many ways to train a dog =)

[Adina P]

If only I liked wine...I could use some now too! I'm BEAT after this week :-O I think it makes me more anal when I'm tired...thus having to be uber technical as above ... LOL

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

Exactly. Like I stated the chance of me actually tossing it and hitting his rump is very slim. I tossed it once since Tuesday and he was half way across the room before it landed. I Didn't even come close, but it is effective. I have complete control of his behavior and I am not yelling my brains out, or getting frustrated. I shake the chain and say "no" and he stops and comes to me for a treat.

Mostly I am using it for chasing the cats and the kids. Otherwise a "no" or "Unh Unh" is working for stealing socks or shoes, etc... It is the behavior that has him at the next level of excitement that it is perfect for.

The pinch collar to me looks a little scary and I will be honest I thought that it looked cruel when I first saw someone using one. It looked like a torcher device to me, but obviously there is a reason for someone to have to use it as an effective tool. You can use these items without being cruel to your pet. The more I read about collars and training devices the more I realized that these items are there for a reason and can be very effective if used properly with the guidence of a professional.

[Yvonne, Riley, Murphy and Luca]

You are cracking me up! LMAO. S&M????

Thanks for the virtual drink:)