Noah was nipped by a dog in class!

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

There are 3 other dogs in Noah's obedience class - american bulldog, small terrier mix, and an aussie. The trainers always give the dogs 15 minutes to play before class starts. They provide tennis balls for the dogs to play with. Noah came into class yesterday and ran over to the bulldog. The dog was playing with a tennis ball and Noah sniffed him and then immediately rolled over onto his back and just laid there for 5 seconds (he does this with all big dogs to show them he's not a threat. With little dogs, he will just sit there so they can sniff him). All of a sudden, the bulldog started growling at Noah, so Noah got up and as he was running away, the dog lunged at him and nipped his back really hard. Noah started shrieking and then started growling and baring his teeth at the dog. Then he ran over to the classroom door and hid under the bench. When this happened, the trainer was right there and told the other dog "NO" and checked to see if Noah was ok.

This is supposed to be a partial off-leash class - we're doing distance work and off-leash heeling. However, the bulldog is always on very long lead. The dog is really well-behaved so I've always wondered why the girl keeps her dog on a leash.... well, maybe now I know why. If her dog had not been on a leash when it lunged for Noah, it could have really hurt him. She was able to pull her dog off of him before it escalated.

The dog was fine with Noah for the rest of the class and didn't show any aggression towards him, but now I'm kind of concerned that this will happen again. I know it's common for dogs to be toy possessive and to nip, but this was more than a nip to get Noah away.

I really like the training school I go to and Noah and Sherlock have been enrolled at the school for a few months now. I don't want to cause any trouble, but I really don't think I should have to worry about a dog-aggressive dog in class! Even if the dog is not actually dog-aggressive, the girl should have told people that her dog does not like to share toys. I certainly don't want Noah to be fearful of big dogs.

[Lindsey, Lee, Whopper and Simba]

I agree. I would try and make a recommendation that balls and other such toys not be used knowing now that they can trigger a negative response and potentially cause harm. Whopper and Quinn will help Noah overcome any residual fear of bigger dogs this Sunday but I doubt he'll really have any serious issues as he at least defended himself a little before running away.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

the dog may need socializatoin but that class is not the place for it. The trainer should have made everyone in the class aware of potential issues so no one would their puppy in the line of 'fire'.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Hi Jane,
My son has an American Bulldog, they can be very aggressive dogs, towards dogs of the same sex. Is this Bulldog neutered. Sometimes that does not even help, I know our Magnum is very good with all Females, but get another male near him and forget it, and it does not matter if they are neutered. I would talk with the trainer and express your concerns, you have a right and a paying customer. When Hannah was in classes, second set of obedience there was a german shepard and it was nasty and scary, it went right for Hannah. Before the dog could get her it dealt with me, and it was not pleasant to say the least what I said to the owner. Sorry but my dogs in my eyes come first as I'm sure your's would. Our trainer at the time tried to brush it off saying the dogs will be fine, but I clearly told her if anything happened to Hannah or myself from this dog being there, than she is excepting responsibility. That dog was kept away from Hannah and I made sure Hannah was no where near the other dog. It also may not be the balls that caused this, try and keep Noah away from this dog at any risk. When we go to the dog park, poor Hannah has been jumped 3xs last year and loves to play with everyone, never a fighter, but it has put a scare in her. All I can say is just be very very careful, and let the trainer know.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

In our classes the 15 minute of play is supposed to be play dog with dog. What is this nonsense that toys are allowed - it should be for only socialization. The only time a toy came out was for 'praise' for a practice session well done. Then and only then it was allowed only with pup and parent. Everyone used a tug toy - I get the best results with a ball and the trainer approved it so I was allowed to praise Samanatha with throwing her a ball.
Is the only thing the trainer did was say 'no'? No reprecussions for biting? If she was aware of the dog's issue with balls then she should have made an announcement to the class. THAT dog should NEVER been allowed to have a ball during class. If that is the case I don't feel very comfortable with the trainer being able to keep things safe. What did the owner of school have to say about this incident?
I sometimes see Samantha 'hord' a ball in the park - her body language tells me that she is 'warning' the other dog that ball is hers. I immediately reprimand her so that she knows that behavior is unacceptable and I will not tolerate it. If it happens again, I take the ball away from her and we go home.
In our school, there are classes for dogs that are aggressive - they are separate from the general population.
Sorry for running at the fingertips but I am very passionate about agressive behavior. It just cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Hi Jane,
I really do not think it is so much the toys, as it is the male dominance. I definetly would discuss this with the trainers and keep them apart, for each others saftey. We do not take Magnum to dog parks, and if other males come around, we go the other way, we know it will turn into a blood bath and don't want that at all. He is the sweetest dog around kids, family, friends, other female dogs, or I wouldnt have Hannah and Honey, but it's the male thing and it's for the protection of him as well as other male dogs. There also was a female A.B.D. at agility classes with Hannah, her owner has trained so many A.B.D.'s it's not even funny and yet this one female could not always be around other females and was so dominate. Some dogs need their space, and since Noah and the A.B.D are the only males, I would bet my experiences on it being a dominance thing. But very much so talk with the trainer, because they are the ones who need to deal with this and for your and Noah's saftey. The owner of the A.B.D. is either not picking up on the dogs bad behaviour or does not know how to deal with their dog, so sorry to say, it get's put on you.

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

HI Jane, I'm sorry, the school may have been good but this is not a good trainer for all the reasons the others have said. Toys never belong in a class. Aggressive dogs should have special training plans. I would not be in a class with an aggressive dog. I would tell the trainer that there has to be a very carefully designed plan in place or the ABD goes or you go. Your dog looks to you to keep him safe. If you do not, then you lose your position as leader. Then he feels like he has to be the leader. If you don't keep him safe, he may develop behaviors that will be extremely difficult to deal with down the line. Being nice is not nearly as important as the safety of your dog. AS a trainer I would say that something has to change drastically in that class or pull your dog out & get your money refunded. Be sure to tell them the reason why!
JMHO Puppy love from JOy & furry folk

[Sandy]

I agree with much that has been written. Our school does not allow aggressive dogs in class with the other dogs. They will be removed. We were told that at the beginning. They will be given individual sessions, but not be part of a big group until they are non-aggressive. Honestly - it's hard enough to train well and keep focus when everyone is friendly, let alone worrying about some dog attacking my dog!

[Stella]

That dog shouldn't have been allowed to join that class. When we took ours to off-leash classes, the instructor very carefully selected which dogs would be allowed to join, so that in-case of the inevitable running off to try and play (!!) there would be no problems between any of the dogs. We all had a blast with the class because we knew there would be no issues. I agree with everyone else, there should not be toys during puppy play time, it is for the dogs to socialise with each other, not to learn about toy possession.

Like Samantha, Hartley occasionally shows toy possessiveness at the dog park, but only with certain dogs, with others he will happily share and even take turns to retrieve. When he gets a bit growly with another dog, I remove the ball and we leave. (I never take a ball with me because I don't want to encourage anyone elses dog to become possessive either, but inevitably someone there has a ball with them, or they find one that has been left behind!!)

You should defintely bring up your concerns to the instructor of the class, you should not be paying and going to classes where you are worried about your dog being attacked.

[Carole (*Koda*Monty*Bindi)]

So sorry this happened to Noah. Poor guy. Keep us updated when you hear back from the trainer. I'd be interested in hearing what he/she has to say about this.