Do you Get What You Pay For?

[StaceyW]

We have been researching labradoodles and have figured out what we are hoping for (F1B or multigen, light coat, fleece). Here is the dilemna. We have found a well established very knowledgable breeder. Puppies are about $2300 which seems about average for metro Atlanta - we are confident that we would get what we paid for and would be happy - two year health guarantee, hip testing, heart testing We have also found a family that breeds labradoodles F1B- no health guarantees - they are their family pets that they have bred before - cost is $600 for a puppy - 1/4 the cost!! Now given that our last two dogs were pound puppies (one which had medical issues) and that we had them and loved them for 12 years - we are having a hard time contemplating spending thousands of dollars on what is essentially a mutt (a loveable non shedding mutt but still . . .). We have no need for papers etc. We just want a great family pet. Thoughts on this? thanks

[StaceyW]

Thank you everyone for all your responses. I think at this point, me and dh are going to go to this family breeder and see their operation - see the parents, the puppies and ask lots of questions and then reassess the situation. The puppies are only a couple of weeks old and wont be ready to go home for two more months. In the meantime, if anyone knows of a available F1B or mulitgen puppy - cream color, fleece within driving distance from Atlanta that we should look at - please let me know. I can see that this board is going to be a terrific resource for us!

[Adina P]

How far would you drive Stacey? Just in case someone has suggestions.

[StaceyW]

two to three hours each way

[Doodle Kisses]

The goodness of the dog has nothing to do with cost. But cost usually reflects on the effort the breeder put into the breeding program and often reflects the health testing. It isn't about fancy names or fancy papers or fancy house. There are wealthy people in fancy homes who are irresponsible breeders and simple, less fancy people who do all the testing and set the bar high for breeding. It's not about status...but a responsible breeding process.

Personally I cannot support a breeder (big, small, medium size) that does not do health testing on the parent dogs. There's lots of dogs in shelters from casual breedings, oops litters, puppy mills, etc...I don't want to support casual breeding. That doesn't mean I can pay $2,300 either. But about $2300 is typically what mutligenerational and Australian labradoodles cost--not F1 and F1b doodles.

Anyway...I am not mad at you for your choice...not at all.

But I just want everyone to know there is a middle ground between $2300 and a breeder who does no health testing.

It always comes down to buyer beware. As a potential future puppy buyer I want a breeder who provides a home atmosphere, clean environment...AND who knows the health background of their dogs AND does health testing AND stands behind the pups with good guarantees as well as a willingness to always take a dog back that they bred to help in rehoming.

[April Cliber]

OK throwing in my two cents.....
First, I'd like to say that rescuing a dog through IDOG is a wonderful thing and should be considered. :o)

If your looking for a pup from a breeder here are a few things to consider.

* You will have your pup for 12-15 years. If you paid $2300 that would come to about $15 a month.
* The breeder doesn't just raise the pups. He/she also cares for the parents and has raised them, fed them, paid for vet care and health testing.
* Your breeder should socialize your pup and spend many hours a week one on one with your pup. Early socialization is SO important!
* Purchasing quality breeding dogs is VERY expensive. With breeding rights, quality Golden retrievers & labs (especially English) can be between $2,000 & $8,000 each. Quality Australian Labradoodles with breeding rights are $10,000 - $20,000 each. I'm not kidding!
* If a breeder spays or neuteres pups before they leave, it costs about $200 for each pup, so you can deduct that from the price.
* Feeding pups, vaccinations, deworming, microchips, vet visits, ultrasounds, x rays just to name a few are are also expensive.
* A good breeder will give you a lifetime of assistance.
* What level of customer service is a breeder willing to give? When you talk to them can you tell that they LOVE what they do and are passionate about their dogs?
* If your pup ends up with dysplasia, the surgery alone will be more then the price difference.

The question I'd ask is for $600 a pup what are they not doing? Has the mom been feed high quality food during her pregnancy and has she been seen by a vet? Have either parents had any health testing? Are pups vaccinated and dewormed? Does the breeder have breeding rights to the parents?

A good breeder will take their job very seriously, will study pedigrees, carefully plan out breeding's and will do everything possible to ensure that each pup and the parents live a quality, healthy life. Many breeders that do all this are nice families who home raise pups. It's more expensive than most realize to breed pups, and you will pay more for a pup from a quality breeder.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

I am better educated on how to purchase a Doodle now than when I got ours. We got Boomer because he was a biological brother to a Doodle that we knew, We didn't ask any questions. When we were looking for our second we wanted a "mini" and they were difficult to find - so when w ound one available again we did not ask to many questions. We were fortunate that they both are healthy and have good temperments. Mariner is another story - he was a dog that had an accident and was blind (he is Boomer's bioogical brother). We adopted him knowing that there were going to be issues. Boomer and Shayna were relatively inexpensive although they came from quality (although small) breeders. Although we offered to pay or Mariner, the breeder told us that they could not take money for him.

We have three beautiful loving doodles AND were VERY LUCKY because I had not done any real research before we adopted them. I also should add that in our area doodles have become more popular and I beleive that is one reason the prices are as high as they are.

In my opinion there are only two options on how to get a dog:

1 - A quality breeder - they don't have to be a big breeder - both of our breeders only have one or two litters a year
2 - A rescue/rehome.

Some breeders do have older dogs that they are selling for one reason or another, and they may be more reasonably priced.

[nonnie browne]

You are getting plenty of opinions and they are so good. For what its worth, here are my thoughts. I considered idog rescue, but they are fewer and further between in numbers and I had a low sense of confidence in my ability to train a potentially "troubled" dog. I also wanted a puppy to raise because this is my last dog (we are not getting any younger) and the first time I have had a chance to train up a baby since I quit working - a real treat for me as I love the training. I spoke to breeders literally all across the US between November and February. Some made me feel very uncomfortable, period. Then I found someone I really connected with - it was like making a true new friend. She is a breeder, but low key, home schools her kids and family raises her dogs indoors. Uses the parents as therapy dogs. Bottom line, I really connected with the breeder and we became friends. She breeds multigen australian labradoodles so yes, I paid the big bucks for my dog. More importantly, she got to know me and together, we picked a dog from the littler that really matched my personality. Spreading the cost over all the years I will own him does help rationalize, but he is still the priciest dog I have ever owned. That said, he came with 2 year guarantee, microchipped, neutered, and with a ton of online and in person support. I got to meet the parents (in video) and speak to other puppy owners. My experience has been a complete blessing. Smartest, calmest, most willing dog I have ever owned. Support from my breeder continues. Dog is also super attractive, but not sure that matters because I am smitten. He is the star of his obedience class and we are considering agility. I am completely satisfied and at the end of the day whatever you choose, that is how I think you want to feel. DO ALL YOUR HOMEWORK and I am sure you will make the best decision for YOU! Good Luck!

[Patti]

Stacey - good breeders do not have to operate an actual "breeding center." In fact, sometimes the family breeding is actually better. We had a yellow lab we adored and wanted to breed. We did not want to breed for the purpose of making money. Our purpose was by all accounts, the "wrong reason." It was because we wanted to get a puppy to keep from Bailey. I researched and spoke to different people. Through the search I was lead to a breeder who is known for her good labs. She didn't encourage me to breed - gave me all the reasons that I shouldn't - but she did say that if I still was going to do it, that she wanted to show me how to do it correctly. She checked out our Bailey's pedigree, had me take her to a vet in Michigan for an eye check, and have hips and elbows and heart checked and certified. Once we passed all the qualifications, she determined which of her dogs we should use. I kept in touch with her through the entire pregnancy.

This was a "family event." We all did research and knew what to expect for the big event. We fed Bailey an excellent diet during her pregnancy to give the puppies a good start. She was seen by the vet a couple times before she was due to be sure everything was going fine. When the puppies were born it was in our family room in a whelping box my husband made. The puppies stayed with us for 8 weeks in our home. We adored them - held them, played with them, put different colored collars on them to identify them. We took them to the vets immediately. They had their shots, wormings, were microchipped, and we also took them to Michigan for an eye check before they were able to go to their new homes. My daughter typed up a contract for the new owners to sign that explained that we wanted these puppies in good, loving homes and well cared for. If for any reason at any time one of the pups had to be rehomed, to notify us and we would take the dog. The puppies' owners claimed them when they were about 4 wks. old, so they came to visit a few times before they could actually take them at 8 weeks. Our puppies all went to wonderful homes where they have been loved members of their families. We have kept in touch with several of the families and get to see a couple of our pups quite often.

The whole point of this is that even though we are not "breeders," we put our whole heart and souls in our puppies and I think we did a very good job. We did not charge an arm and a leg, because that is not why we wanted to have puppies. We did charge enough that people had to think twice and really be serious buyers/dog caretakers. We made no money on our adventure - health tests, microchipping, puppy testing, bowls, leashes, treats, piece of Bailey's blanket to go home
with pups, puppy albums from birth on up to go home day, and of course -- a photo shoot at moto photo! We made no profit, but we had a wonderful experience and did this two times. We have our Riley, who is a wonderful present from Bailey. So, you see, you can get a good puppy from someone who does not run a breeding center or kennel. Just make sure they have checked out the dogs health-wise and the puppies are fed well, vetted, socialized, and kept in a clean place.

When I was looking for my doodle puppy, Kenzie, I had two nearby choices. The first was a family who had the golden and bred to her sister's poodle. Both parents were healthy and the puppies were loved by the family. They were 8 weeks old. She gave me the name of a local vet who always recommends her to people who are looking for doodles (she breeds once a year).

The second choice was a "breeder." I found her in the paper but she also has a web site. She had a lot of puppies and the parents in kennels in an old crummy barn. She had several kinds of puppies, all crying and jumping around for attention = along with the poor parents. Her puppies were only 6 weeks which is too young to be leaving the litter. She said she had a one or two year guarantee against any crippling illnesses. She also charged twice what the first family breeder was charging. I felt much better buying from choice #1, where Kenzie was raised in a family environment and loved, rather than outside in a barn with hundreds of other dog/puppies.

I'm sure you will find a good "breeder" to get a puppy - but I don't think that the breeders who do this to make a living are necessarily the best way to go. Personally, I prefer a family that has done a good job and loved the puppies.

[Adina P]

Sounds like when you bred your lab you did everything right! And I commend that.
But not all 'families' who breed their dog put the care you did into a breeding. It's when families (or single individuals) just breed for the fun of it and don't put that care into the breeding that you did...THAT is where problems arise. Just being a 'family' doesn't make a breeder good or bad. There are 'families' who breed and have websites and don't do health testing. There are giant breeders who don't do health testing. And there are a myriad of options in between.

I think the comparison assumes that families care and breeders who do this as a regular thing don't. It's the quality of the process and the care (health testing included!) and love and education put into it that makes someone worth buying from--whether the pups are $300 or $3000.

[Denise, Winnie, and AngelAbby]

I personally have the family pet puppy myself. No testing on the parents - no papers - no health guarantee - and I couldn't be happier with her. At $2300, we would never have been able to get a doodle. I would never pay that much for ANY dog. But we found Abby and I guess you could say we are taking our chances. She comes from a family that just wanted to breed their female once before they got her spayed. She is only 7 months old, but so far, seems to be totally healthy. I am still in contact with the breeder - he loves to hear about Abby. We made our choice and will deal with whatever comes up.

[StaceyW]

We went yesterday to see the puppies and meet the family breeders. This is their first litter of F1B puppies (they have had several F1 litters). the puppies are two weeks old - they are living in a crate in the house. The mom is an F1 labradoodle. We also met the standard poodle dad. He came inside to meet us and was very sweet. He and their other dogs live outside in a fenced area. There was also a recently built barn structure (with a/c) where there was another puppy litter. The F1B puppies actually belong to the oldest daughter (teenager) who is trying to raise $ for college. She and her many siblings were all very comfortable with the dogs and constantly were picking up the puppies. They will definetely be well socialized kid wise (and I have three young kids). I dont think we will be any worse off than if we adopted a rescue from the pound as far as the potential for health problems. I recognize that by buying from them we are encouraging the practice but think I am ok with that. This family clearly loves their dogs and takes care of them. We put a deposit down and plan to bring one home at the end of June. Thank you all for your opinions. Now I need to start researching what we need to do to get ready for puppyhood! Stacey

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Have no opinion as to your choice. Just a couple of questions - why is your litter in the house and not the other one? (Maybe moved in just for you to see?) Why would they build a barn for dogs to live in if they are just a family and raising a litter of puppies? How many dogs do they have that they can't be inside with the family? Did you see inside the barn? Sure kids pick up dogs - if they are handy - what is happening to the barn puppies? Re-read your entry and see if any red flags come up for you. It sure does for me. We have 3 dogs - all in our house. One from a rescue, one from a professional breeder and one from a family breeder. The one from the family was their first litter - they bred their female back to the breeder they got her from. The pups were IN the house - all of the time and learning to use a doggie door. These people were interested in starting their own kennel. It was totally obvious where the pups lived, that they got lots of attention. Now the not so obvious - no health testing done on the parents - our little guy has hip problems. We were ignorant in the importance of parental health testing. I would advise you to take a step back and critically ask yourself about this family breeder without thinking of the price or how cute the puppies are. If there are no red flags then........
Have you thought about the possibility of being a guardian home or looking at a local rescue group? We got our lab mix as a little puppy from a local rescue organization who also helps people find homes for their "oops" They of course don't do health testing but they sure check things out - you and the person needing help placing their pets, puppies, kittens. When my sister-in-law died suddenly, these wonderful women helped us rehome her 5 cats. They found homes for 4 and because one was really difficult - kept it.