Comment for breeders.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Ok I may be idealistic but I personally have a problem with breeders who treat pups like livestock. I know some breeders have farms/acreages and whelp the puppies in barns or whelping shacks where the puppy continues to live until it is adopted. Now in the case the puppy isnt adopted until it is several months old it roams the land like a wild sheep with no house manners whatsoever?! I would not want to adopt a dog like that for fear it would be near ferel and not well socialized. Like taking a sheep or something home to live.Thats why I looked for a breeder that house raised the puppies and they were treated like pets. (Yes I verified this) These are pups not sheep. I love to see breeders that only pre-sell puppies so there are no 'leftovers' so to speak. But if there are extras they arent kept in an open barn left to wander the back 40 like livestock.

I would like to hear any comments or justifications regarding farming dogs. Just a footnote: I am talking certain Canadian breeders I have seen on websites, I am not referring to any breeder on this board because I dont know any of you - just like to hear what you have to say about this.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Thats great Anne! Good to hear that. It was my point exactly, if a pup isnt purchased by 8 weeks old the breeder should get the pup started on training and such onschedule, as if it were in a forever home already. Outside time is great for all animals but to house them in a barn or kennels and let them roam the back 40 til they are 6 months old or so - well can you imagine adopting such a dog! No potty training, or indoor living experience at all. Since you are here in BC with me I am sure you know the couple of breeders I am referring to. The 2 specific ones I am thinking of are one here in BC and one in Manitoba. Well rated but I am not impressed by the way they do things. Dogs are housepets and cant be farmed like pigs, sheep, or horses.

[Stella]

I totally agree with you. Our breeders dogs are all house dogs and family pets. They don't all live with her as she has too many, so those that she can't keep go to a forever home and just go back to her to have the puppies. The puppies are all raised in her house and if they get a little older before being sold they are trained there too. When we were looking for our second doodle, we struggled to find somewhere within a reasonable drive breeding F1 standard LDs and looked at alternate breeders. The only one we found was a farm breeder with all the dogs living in kennels. After some heart searching, although we really wanted a standard size,we decided against the farm breeder and went back to our original breeder for a medium F2 instead. I couldn't have lived with myself for buying a puppy from what I feel is a glorified puppy mill (I googled her telephone number and they had several breeding businesses listed under that one number and address).

[Sharon]

I do not believe in farming dogs- I just wanted everyone to know that I have adopted a mini goldendoodle from Springview doodles. His name is Oliver and he is the most loving "mini doodle" there is. I also have a big goldendoodle with is now 3 years old- I am writing this in case there is someone who is looking for a mini goldendoodle. She only has one litter at a time, and they are litterly in her kitchen until you take one home. I have researched this for a few years now and I definately made the right choice by choosing Springview Doodles. Please ask for Lisa and tell her Oliver sent you

[Jeannine]

Even sheep have right...

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

I am a Canadian breeder and we raise our puppies in our living room and our mama dog sleeps with us at night. We are very close to the Quebec border where puppy farming is much more common place. The only justification they can give is greed, they make more money treating the dogs like pigs than they do from actually raising pigs. Its terrible. Puppy buyers, always visit the home and see the parent(s) living like a loved house pet. And an 8 weeks old puppy should be started on house training, crate training, learning to sit and walk on a leash, and even leave it. If a breeder takes the time to start to teach a puppy all of these things it helps convey how much they love their puppies and that they have been treated very well while in their care.

[Jeannine]

I wish they were more kind breeders like you.
I'm originally from Quebec and I'm very ashamed that my home province is the worst puppy mills area in my country. The law to protect animals in Quebec is a joke.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"And an 8 weeks old puppy should be started on house training, crate training, learning to sit and walk on a leash, and even leave it. If a breeder takes the time to start to teach a puppy all of these things it helps convey how much they love their puppies and that they have been treated very well while in their care."
I couldn't agree more. I am glad to hear a breeder say this, because when I have said it in the past, there has been a great defensive response from some breeders who explain how impossible it would be for them to do these things.
My last puppy came to me from her breeder with all of this in place. I never had all these problems you read about in the forum with 6 months old dogs not being housebroken, new puppies not able to adjust to a crate and crying all night, etc. Of course, my breeder wasn't trying to pay the mortgage from selling dogs, and didn't have 10 litters a year, or even more than one at a time.

[Adina P]

I agree with starting on house training and crate training for sure because it makes transition into someone's new home so much easier! Hey, maybe even 'leash acceptance.'

But learning to sit/leave it can be taught so fast by new owners and is so unreliable in early puppyhood that I honestly don't see how it can help. I recently read a great quote on training "Practice makes permanent." The amount of practice it takes to make 'permanent' can only happen in the new home with daily training practice over a long period of time. The sit on command (dog hearing the word sit and being capable of a correct response) is a CINCH to teach -- but sitting on command as a reliable obedience behavior whenever/wherever you ask for it...THAT is work cut out for the new owner, in my opinion. And walking politely on a leash...that's difficult work (real life excellent leash walking includes a myriad of distractions that most people still haven't mastered with their 2 year old+ dogs) and isn't going to be completed by 8 weeks even with a breeder that is a professional trainer.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes, it was the house training and crate training that I was primarily talking about. Some socialization in terms of being used to being handled by a variety of people, and being accustomed to children, men, etc., is helpful too. Going back to Reg's original points, being used to being in a house is the main thing.
IMO, there is nothing easier than teaching the sit, and the leave it has been easy for me too. Leash "acceptance" is enough, too. Those things don't seem to have been a problem for anyone.

[Adina P]

Well then...by golly I agree :-D

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

I am a breeder but I'm not breeding right now. I also do rescue. There are too many people losing their homes & the dogs are being reliquished & being put to death. I'm trying to save them & find them homes. Additionally, people cannot afford to pay me my 10 cents an hour profit that I earn when breeding & I have to do other work other than breeding puppies. My puppies are bred only 1 or 2, at most litters at a time in my home. In fact I have been accused of living in a kennel. Its all a matter of perception LOL. The parent dogs are extensively tested. The puppies are potty trained by 6 weeks. The puppy parents attend a seminar when they pick up their puppies so they can continue the training. They all speak the same language before they go home. I could breed like the Amish or Mennonites & keep the place clean & healthy. They are probably better at housekeeping than I am. I would make a lot more money with lots of litters. But it isn't possible to give the puppies the individual attention that experience has taught me is essential for them to reach their full potential. But that doesn't sit right in my heart. I would make more money but if it were about money I wouldn't be breeding dogs. I can make more money manufacturing my inventions. (I'm an inventor) So I agree with you. IMO if you want a great pet, you should purchase a puppy that is home raised. It is a pet from day one. If you want a barn dog then buy a barn dog. And for those that say they have wonderful dogs that were raised in barns, I say that is wonderful. You probably have worked very hard to socialize those dogs and have given them a lot of love & training. But You would be amazed how much those puppies learn in those first few weeks of life. I will leave you with the question: will you ever know what the potential of your dog would have been had that same puppy been home raised? Puppy love from Joy & furry folk

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

"I am a breeder but I'm not breeding right now. I also do rescue. There are too many people losing their homes & the dogs are being reliquished & being put to death. I'm trying to save them & find them homes."

This is what makes a responsible breeder. This is why you are one of the good one's, Joy!

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In this economy, there are hundreds and hundreds of doodles in shelters, even KILL shelters around this country and in Canada. Our listings are so large, we are talking about splitting the regions, even smaller. IDOG is DESPERATE for foster families in Texas and Georgia. Doodles in Texas shelters are so prevalent all of a sudden that transports of dogs are being planned to bring some to the North East. This situation is daily becoming a crisis situation. Why anyone would breed more dogs is beyond me.