What is an authentic Australian Labradoodle?

[Audrey Goldman]

My one year old Archie is from HudsonDoodles in New York, listed as a (registered?) breeder of Australian Labradoodles AL). I verified this breeder was legit with Rutland Manor and Archie's birth certificate lists him as a 5th generation Australian Labradoode. Archie is my first dog and I adore him yet I am also curious as the original characteristics I requested from the breeder are not what Archie has grown into. He is much bigger than I thought he would be, 50 lbs instead of 35, his coat has changed from a deep chocolate to a light latte color and his coat is curly instead of wavy. Is this common when getting an Australian Labradoodle even when thier parentage goes back 5 generations?
At what point with authentic AL (and a very expensive one I might add) do you know what your adult dog will look like. Loving my sweet Archie. Audrey in CA

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I am not an expert at all and I think others who are more savvy will jump in with better information for you but here is what I have learned. Size - can't actually predict it because the dog hasn't been around that long - especially with smaller doodles. My ALD was supposed to be a mini but is slightly bigger. Color - colors change as they mature - chocolates most of all, but the reds fade and lighten also. Fur ( and this is most confusing) often gets curlier as the dog matures. I think the more experienced breeders are better at predicting what your doodle will look like as an adult. Keep in mind this is a fairly new dog, but even with pure breed dogs, there are variations - those are sold as pet quality as opposed to show quality.
Most of us ( well me anyway) thought I had done a lot of research and learned so much before we impulse bought our dood. After I got my pup I found doodlekisses and have learned soooooo much more. Even though Ned is bigger than we expected, we are actually thrilled because we found out that we like the medium size - whatever that range is - better than the really tiny dogs. They only thing I would change is the matting factor in his coat.
I think the most common thing I have read when doodlekisses members talk about their dogs is that those of us who thought we were getting a smaller doodle, actually ended up with a bigger one. Downsizing is the newest trend and not reliable at all - even with multi-generations. I get a kick out of people calling their 40 - 50 pound dog a mini. Hello. They may have purchased a "hopefully" mini but it outgrew that range and is no longer a mini!
I am sure some of our breeder members will jump in with appropriate technical information for you.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I agree with everything you said. My medium from a very experienced breeder is actually a medium, which is determined more by height than weight, but he is one of the biggest this breeder has had (39 lbs.). My puppy (20 weeks) is also supposed to be a medium is from a less experienced breeder. She told me that Calla will mature at around 30-35 pounds but at the rate she's growing I think she may get bigger. In her litter there were very curly pups but she had a wavy coat which I hope remains as she matures. Luca's spiral fleece is now matting as you look at him. I keep hoping this will decrease as his puppy coat is finished but he is 15months old now.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I live near Hudson, NY and I am familiar with this breeder. He does say he has Australians. I have one from a different breeder and her MOM was an Australian LD and her dad was a multi-generational (doodle bred to doodle) american LD. My breeder tells me that this qualifies her as an Australian. My doodle looks more like her dad--but does look like an Australian LD! She was supposed to be a medium in the 35 - 40 pound range and she is getting close to 45 pounds at 11 months. She is a great size, but bigger than we expected and much bigger than my other doodle, whose an F1 with a mini-poodle as a dad.
The point is that breeding is an inexact science. No one can guarantee a size, color, etc, but they can take an educated guess based on their experience. Size is particularly tough to predict. Sometimes people think that if they buy a "purebred" that will be a more reliable predictor of size. I would agree with that to some extent, but I bought a Wheaten terrier once that turned out to be HUGE. Many times the breeder will sell the pups that do not seem like they will be the standard size as pets. The ones that are perfect are the ones that end up at dog shows and that gives people the idea that a breed is very consistent.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I would say that you have an Australian labradoodle. Australian labradoodles can all ( at this point) be traced back to Tegan Park and Rutland Manor dogs. Breeding one multigen ALD to another multigen ALD is the only way to have another ALD. Any "out breeding" ( to a non multigen ALD such as an American multigen) by anyone other than the the original Tegan Park and Rutland Manor kennels is not recognized as an authentic multigen. Hopefully, at some point breeders of ALD and American labradoodles will have a "meeting of the minds" to benefit the concept of this breed, which is about temperment and health.

Usually breeders will give you a range of size that the puppy will mature to. Also a range of color that can be expected from his heritage. Mediums generally are 20 inches and under I think. The first answer to your discussion is a good source to back up my sometimes less than accurate memory. Color in these dogs is tricky and does change as the dog matures. I have been told that by three the color you see is the lasting color of your dog and will only change as he grays. Like humans, how much he greys and how early is genetic also.There is a good discussion of color and ALDs also at www.tallai-australian-labradoodles.com.

I, too, am loving my two ALDs, full brothers who are very different in color size and personality. Just like my two children! From CA

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

Accoridng to ALAA an "Australian Labradoodle is a dog that carries the DNA of the Labrador, Poodle and Cocker Spaniel (American or English). The resulting offspring are more similar but slightly mixed depending on the parent dogs. An Australian Labradoodle can be created by the crossing of a Poodle to another Australian Labradoodle, a Cock a poo to a Labradoodle, a Labradoodle to a Cocker Spaniel and the like, resulting in the three breed combination" with no specific reference to Tegan or Rutland.

So can someone make an "Australian labradoodle" by crossing an F1b to a cockapoo so ling as it conforms to the breed standard?

[1i86r4x3nftnw]

my labradoodles are both bred from australian labradoodles

[Audrey Goldman]

Ann, I greatly appreciate your reply because you breed AL. First, let me say as a person who was buying their first dog my demands and/or expectations may have been unrealistic. I spent 8 months researching the breed and met two people with AL, one large and one medium. I was so clear with the breeder that size was an issue. I am 62 and weigh about 106 lbs. I did not want a big dog! As I said I love my Archie and at one year old things are settling down but it has been a very difficult adjustment. He is so tall that everything in my kitcken has had to be moved as he would constantly counter search and grab everything he could reach, which was everything! I paid $2,500 and the cost of the flight from NY to LA. Knowing what I know now, I believe the breeder should have been much more up front on the issue of size. If I had known I would have a 50 lb dog, who may get bigger, I may have declined this litter and waited for a smaller dog. So, way more than $3,000 later, Archie is not 30-35 lbs. Loving Archie is not the issue. But I do believe the breeder had a responsibiity to tell me if what I wanted was possible or if I should be looking at a smaller breed or wait for a smaller litter. As a breeder, are you comfortable commenting on this? PS I really liked and trusted the breeder and last year when I had a business meeting in NY I took a side trip to Hudson, NY to meet him. He and his wife are wonderful but somehow I feel they were not as upfront on size, one of my key issues. What part of medium did I miss???? Many thanks, Audrey

[Adina P]

I think you have a legitimate concern Audrey. I think it's incredibly important for breeders of mixed breed dogs (and even the ALD is a mixed breed...quite far from breeding true) to be completely upfront about the variations and possible size discrepancies. And not just say it once, but be sure the buyer understands 100% that size is not guaranteed and some doodles will end up being bigger than predicted. The thing with 'size' is that even if weight is where you expect it...height can make a dog appear quite large and so that has to be mentioned too.

A basset hound can weight 75 lbs and it still looks small. But a 40 lb doodle can have some loooong legs and reach counters despite being 'light.'

[F, Calla & Luca]

I visited Hudson Labradoodles, and the dogs were beautiful, before I ended up getting Luca from Washinton state.I was clear that I wanted a medium but I realized the dogs Curtis called medium weighed more than I wanted and I do think his information on size was somewhat misleading. After I found a better match he did refund my deposit, with a little coaxing, as he had said he would. He told me at the time he disliked little dogs and now he is breeding all sizes including minis and many dogs! When my son's standard poodle became really ill I could not lift him and I didn't want to feel so helpless again.

[Kate C Pappas]

Hi there Audrey and Archie! I know Curtis Rist and he is a very good breeder with high standards. But I don't think any breeder can absolutely predict the size/weight of a Doodle. There is no absolute right now. Yarra was supposed to be a medium (as her parents were described as or small standards) and she kept growing and growing. She's 25.5" at the shoulder and weighs a lean 61 lbs. 

Yindi was supposed to be a standard and as a little puppy her paws were HUGE! Now at 18 months, she is about 20" at the shoulder and weighs 40 lbs. Go figure. She was supposed to have a loose fleece coat and the breeder proclaimed there were no curly coats in her litter. LOL! Most people think Yindi is a Poodle with an intact tail. I don't care a bit. Her coat is lovely and her size allows her to be my lap dog.

As far as the dog's size in relation to it's human's size, that shouldn't be an issue. If the dog is well trained, there should be no problem as in pulling etc

 

BTW...I don't think I have your current email and would love to see you sand the handsome Archie sometime. Give me a holler via messaging here.

[Adina P]

It probably depends on who you ask... I know the ALAA approves all of the above labradoodles that you've mentioned. But Rutland Manor's 'brand' of the original and true Australian labradoodle would say that is not a genuine Australian labradoodle.

[Adina P]

by "that" is not a genuine... I meant that to imply "Australian" + American or poodle...