Personal Thoughts Regarding Rutland Manor

[Tanya]

Ever since I have had my ALD, I have been reading this forum. It is a wonderful place to learn and get information regarding my sweet little guy who is 14 months old. I don't think that any of us wouldn't say that we just love the doodles as well as anybody else that knows or meets them.

I have been reading and staying up on the whole Rutland Manor situation. My guy is from a US breeder who I have respect for and who has always been helpful and is always interested in how her pups are doing. But here is the thing... Augie is directly related to RM Shasta/Grandmother (Shasta's first EARLY litter) and his Mother was bred at RM and sent to the states.

I have been keeping an open mind regarding everything I have been reading - all over - involving Rutland Manor. But I have been also pondering many things in my own mind. Not all these organizations, Baw Baw, neighbors, breeders that have spoken out, a university,and so on and so on,. are in a massive conspiracy out to get Beverly Manners. I feel very much that they want/need to see these unbelievable sweet ALDs rescued from these conditions of which they are living in.

I have read numerous times that people are asking for more 'proof' from these organizations. It seems clear to me that there is an ongoing investigation and they might be under advice or orders to not post all the evidence that they have in their possession RIGHT NOW. Here in the US, whether it is police, sheriff, FBI, IRS or any other departments that have investigations, they do NOT play 'all their cards' until they get their entire case together. I am wondering if this might be the case in Australia too.

In all civilized countries, children and animals are protected. They are the 'innocents' that can't protect themselves. If there is a united ongoing investigation, I am sure that these people and organizations are hopefully or SHOULD be all working together to protect these dogs. I am under the belief, after reading everything I find with a completely open mind, that many people would love to get up on the highest steeple, with the largest megaphone, and yell out all they know right now. I don't believe they can YET!

My greatest worry is regarding my totally loyal and loving Augie. There is nothing that I wouldn't do to protect him in the past, present, and future. But right now, I have NO TRUST, whatsoever, of Rutland Manor's part of the pedigree and health testing of his close relatives. I am very concerned about what might appear in future years and the heartbreak that may come. This is a new breed. I am worried.

But I love these dogs. And I wouldn't hesitate to get another one. But I feel that we all have to hold our breaths concerning any pedigree that is from Rutland Manor or the late Teagan Park for potential health problems in the future. And my hope is that all OTHER breeders of these dogs, with this BEAUTIFUL temperament, keep breeding them all over the world so other families will have the same joy that I have with my guy.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree with you, Adina. There are no guarantees, and we can't always worry about what might be ahead. I think that prevents us from really enjoying what we have. I do think we have a responsibility to research the background of our breeders and provide our dogs with a loving and healthy environment, and beyond that it's out of our hands.

[gkce5pjesxm9]

Hi Tanya,

Your thoughts on this make a lot of sense. I love discussions that stick to the topics and don't get cloudy with emotions and temper.

Don't worry so much about your doodle. Yes, there is a concern about pedigrees and health testing. The one that needs to be most worried is your breeder. Please know that it is not their fault if they were provided with an incorrect pedigree or test results. I am sure you were provided with a health guarantee. If I were you, and you have these concerns, I would get some tests done prior to your contract running out. An eye CERF will cost less than $50. A hip test for OFA around $150 and depends on your area. A complete thyroid test through Dr. Dodds which would include blood, chemistries and thyroid will cost about $150 and you provide your vet with the paperwork and he draws and sends the blood to Dr. Dodds. Perhaps for a little investment, you can get peace of mind. You can contact me at: [e-mail] if you need help with any of this. I can provide you links for Dr. Dodds.

As far as pedigrees, well there is too much speculation, manipulation, fabrication and downright misrepresentation for me to help you with that. In the future, it would be much advised that you visit your potential breeder often and ask to have all paperwork on your pup available for your inspection.

It has been my feeling that pedigrees from RM have been manipulated for some time. There has been proof of one line, in particular, that parental DNA was done (collected from both sire and dam as well as progeny) which DID prove that the pedigrees were incorrect. :+(

Like you, I do believe that the info is being collected and legal procedures will eventually clarify this whole mess that has become the RM Controversy.

[Tanya]

Thank you very much for the information on the testing, etc. I appreciate that. Augie is very healthy and has been since the day he arrived. I am just concerned of anything that might come up when he is 6 or 8 years old.

I have pretty much decided that I may change his insurance to another company that pays even if some genetic problem may show up way down the line. It probably will cost more since he is 14 months old now and I am sure quite a bit more to cover genetic problems that might arise, but that will insure me that he will get the best possible care no matter what.

My breeder tests all her breeders for everything. On her web site, she also has the tests/scores right there. She also places all pedigrees on her web site, numerous pictures of all her breeders, etc. I trust her completely and I also feel and think there are VERY good breeders here and also in other countries as well as Australia that are honest. And I do not have any hesitancy about my breeder as I am sure that thousands of people don't have any hesitancy about their breeder either. I was only concerned of the pedigree that was Rutland Manor's part (RM's actual part) in Augie's pedigree - NOT any other part of his pedigree ongoing after that.

This is from a statement written by Angela Cunningham:

There was one other breed I can mention by name that has been added the Labradoodle mix, which is one so outlandish that no one would ever try to breed with it intentionally. This one came already mixed into the genes of the first Labradoodles I purchased from Don. Some years later, he mentioned to me that there was more in them than Labrador and Poodle. He used to raise Afghan Hounds for racing. Done confined the dog to the kennel where, unbeknownst to him, a female Labradoodle had just come into season. The Afghan Hound may have been unlucky at the track, but he was lucky in love with the Labradoodle! To this day, a trace of the Afghan lingers in the gene pool of the Labradoodle, one star in a constellation of traits that have produced the most wonderful breed of all.

I don't care what Augie is totally infused with... but this 'secret recipe' nonsense is confusing at best and dishonet and a coverup at the worst situation. Honesty, in Rutland Manor's breeding program is sorely lacking and the very poor disregard for her dogs is despicable.

I live in Florida and well remember all the articles in the papers relating to Teagan Park and that fiasco. And now comes this new situation with Rutland Manor and I started watching it closely because of my Augie. I have kept an open mind, followed the dot dot dot and now I believe that where their is smoke, there is fire and will wait for the results.

But to say that something is a "RESEARCH" centre is meaningless is my estimation. Any breeder or business owner of any business can name almost anything a research centre. And to say that without Rutland Manor, there will not be any breeders left to breed these dogs doesn't make any sense. There are excellent, honest, helpful, and loving breeders all over that have their hearts, money, and a huge amount of time invested in this breed. They are knowledgeable, they keep accurate databases, and they don't change stories or facts, etc to fit a situation or take a defensive position. They don't need to and they have the value of integrity which is a high priority to them.

And do not fear that if Rutland Manor goes down, after the whole investigation is over, that is the end of the ALD. There is no one that is indispensable. Remember back to the other co-founder, Tegan Park. This wonderful, loving dog will continue on.

To say that Doodle Kisses, Doodleworld, Zoo, etc will go is ludicrous too. They all provide help and a place where doodle lovers keep in touch. Rutland Manor is not a demigod.

Augie is everything I dreamed about and he is everything that I asked for in my application... sex, weight, color, TEMPERAMENT, coat, you name it. He is healthy, happy and extremely intelligent. This was all because MY breeder is knowledgeable and keeps accurate records, socializes the pups and knows her pups. Her breeders are in guardian homes because of her wanting them to have a family that gives them the proper attention and care. Most breeders of these wonderful dogs feel the same way... NO, the ALD will not become extinct nor will the wonderful forums either - no matter what is the outcome of Rutland Manor's investigations.

And to all the wonderful breeders of these dogs... you will always have families to adopt them I feel blessed that I have mine and am grateful for all the rest of the honest breeders.

[Mary Burkovich]

Wonderfully stated Tanya! The labradoodle will live on!

[Nina, Phil, Harlow & Lacey]

Here, here!!!!

[Linny]

Very well said Tanya.

As with a lot of people who've been watching for a while, I'm not sure why all this comes as such a surprise to some. The problems with Rutland Manor’s breeding practices and pedigrees have been well known and openly discussed on the breeder forums and other chat pages for years. Perhaps it's simply that recent events have brought them to the attention of a wider audience. We can only hope that the increase in scrutiny at RM may finally bring about some improvements.

There aren't too many breeders left still using breeding dogs purchased directly from RM, and most that do have implemented their own comprehensive testing regimes. I don’t own an ALD myself, but I have lots of friends who do, and they are gorgeous, wonderful dogs. The Australian Labradoodle is now a beautiful and robust International breed, and I'm sure it will survive the unfortunate legacy of a single sub-standard Australian kennel.

[Ryan]

What I find alarming is how closely your post matches comments made on other sites, posted under different names. It's like someone has given you a script and you've followed it.

It seems to me that you're spending more time building a case against Rutland Manor than being concerned for your dog. If you were so concerned, as I said below, you would have contacted Beverley and asked direct questions and tried to get some answers. But I don't believe that you're concerned with anything, other than planting seeds of doubt against RM.

You're crediting an American breeder with Augie's traits when, as you said above, his lines are from Rutland Manor. How is it that you're putting only fault on RM and giving them none of the credit? Anyone who has knowledge of dog breeding knows that the grandparents, great-grandparents and so on contribute as much to the make up of your dog as the parents. So, by saying Augie is such a wonderful dog, you are indirectly confirming what most of us already know: that the Rutland Manor bred labradoodle is a solid, dependable animal, bred with love and care.

I'd love to hear form a single person who has had an issue with a Rutland Manor dog THEMSELVES. That seems to be severely lacking in all of these discussions.

[Lorraine Bromley]

Hi, I just watched the post on National Geographic posted here on doodle kissed. It has Beverly Manners and her business focused on thier show. I just think that gives more thought into what was filmed by them. I don't know when it was filmed or where but it is another interesting bit of information in the puppy mill debate.

[Ryan]

I find this post troublesome. To me, it sounds more like statements thinly veiled as questions/concerns. After reading all of the hateful things being said about Rutland Manor if various forums, and by various people, I see this as a more subtle attempt to discredit Rutland Manor's progress and Beverley's work.

If you have an issue, why don't you contact Beverley or Rutland Manor directly? What benefit do you get from posing possibilities in forums? If you were truly concerned about the health of your dog, I'd think you'd be trying to get straight answers.

As someone with personal experience with Beverley and Rutland Manor (she donated a service dog to my family), I can say that 99% of what people are hearing is untrue or twisted greatly to put Beverley and Rutland Manor in a bad light. I think there are a number of reasons this is happening, and they've all come to a climax at the same time.

But, when I heard different things, I want to Beverley and gave her a chance to defend herself. She has documented proof that most of this stuff is completely untrue. After speaking with her and seeing the proof myself, I have complete faith in Beverley and Rutland Manor.

As someone who loved her doodle, I believe you should be giving Beverley the benefit of the doubt, as without her nearly two decades worth of work on the breed, there is no doubt that your sweet Augie may not be in existence today, especially since he is so closely related to RM doodles.

I would say don't believe junk you read on sites from people who have never been to RM, ever dealt with Beverley and have no experience with RM or Bev. Talk to people like Kate Pappas and Twyla, who have been to Australia and stayed at Rutland Manor for 3 weeks. Talk to people like me who know Beverley, and who have been the beneficiary of her kindness.

[Tanya]

Ryan, I posted my personal thoughts and feelings in my post. I just reread my post and it is crystal clear what my concerns are. You have every right to have your own thoughts and feelings but do not attempt to jump into someone else’s mind or put words into their mouth – or I should say, mine.

Why would I even give a thought regarding calling Beverly Manners? What a complete and total waste of time and money. I don’t trust her ‘part’ of the pedigree and that is the problem. My Augie is absolutely healthy, happy and loved at the moment and God willing, he will remain so. But if something would come up in 6, 8, etc years, there would be NO doubt in my mind that I wouldn’t pay any amount of money to help and or save my little guy. An insurance company that covers all areas is meaningful to me. I am not a breeder nor do I really feel like an owner. I feel somewhat like a relative to a little 4 legger as he is a member of my family – maybe not human but a member in his own loving right. I might have paid for him but I certainly don’t feel like I own him as in a commodity. But he is my responsibility to love, respect and protect in every way.

And as far as trusting Beverly Manners right now versus when I first posted, there is no comparison. The evidence is stacking up on Rutland Manors Exposed and when I said that I had an open mind back then, I meant it. Now, with the passing of 1 ½ months - with the evidence stacking up for all of us to see and read - I would consider myself a complete fool or in total denial to not see the actual evidence. So any thought of calling or emailing her is totally absurd. What makes you think the page has turned and honesty prevails?

I don’t need to build any case against her or Rutland Manor. The actual authorities do that with facts and evidence! You must remember Michael Vick and dog fighting! Did his fans know? Did his coaches know? Did his teammates know? Did all members of his family know? Did his neighbors know? But it happened, didn’t it? And he was found guilty with factual evidence, wasn’t he? So you see, the dirty little cruel covert secrets do go on and right under noses. And the evidence is stacking up on Beverly Manners and Rutland Manor. And patience is a virtue even though it is very hard to have when cruelty is evident with her dogs. But I have to have faith that the dogs are being watched and protected right now.

You stated “as someone who loved her doodle, I believe you should be giving Beverly the benefit of the doubt…” which is exactly why I would not give her the benefit of the doubt – for ANY reason. It is because I love Augie and I want him to be with me for his entire life spam. And I want his entire life to be as healthy as possible. And Beverly Manners has not demonstrated honestly in any area as the evidence is coming from every single direction.

So you go forth and call evidence against her just junk. That is your choice, Ryan. I have no reason to attempt or even want to make you think about this a bit more. None of us can say that thoughts, feelings, emotions, opinions, or assumptions are facts. The facts get supported by the evidence and that is exactly what I see.

[Ryan]

LOL. You just confirmed what I suspected - you're getting your info off of Rutland Manor Exposed, which is my whole problem with your "thoughts".

"Rutland Manor Exposed" is a website being run and fueled by animal rights extremists without any regard for what is the truth and what is not. These are people who have had little to no personal experiences with Beverley or Rutland Manor. The "facts" being presented on that site are either completely false or so twisted they are unrecognizable.

The real motivation for "Rutland Manor Exposed" and Debra Tranter's on-going attack against RM and Beverley is publicity. Debra has been trying for years to get her cause more media attention, leading her to allegedly endanger the lives of HUMANS while she preaches about the rights of dogs. She has finally found her cash cow with attacking Rutland Manor. RM has an international reputation of excellence, generosity and devotion to their animals. What could be more shocking to the dog loving community, worldwide, than to find out all of these horrible things? Debra and her team are not concerned with the facts any longer. I do believe at one point, Debra was given incorrect information and believed that Rutland Manor was a puppy mill. She knows the truth now, but she can't give up the gravy train this has provided her.

The problem is this: the people saying these untrue things about RM have no responsibility to prove them. They can say, "Oh, I heard this" or "I heard that" and go on with their lives. The burden of truth is not on them, it's on Beverley and Rutland Manor. They have been purposefully targeted by extremists who want to see all breeders and puppy mills out of business. Now what do they do? Spend 24/7 defending themselves in forums and on websites, or focusing on their dogs and running their program like they always have.

It's alarming to me that you keep referring to the info on that site as "evidence", as if the people posting it are an impartial jury or something similar. They are animal rights activists who have said openly that they don't believe dog breeders have a place in Australia; everyone who rescue an animal from the pound instead.

I could start a website and cram it full of facts on neuroscience. Would that make me a neurologist? No. Just because people put information on the web doesn't validate it as fact. It's our responsibility and conscientious adults to determine what is fact, which is something you blindly ignoring.

If I started a website making horrible allegations against you personally, how would you feel? Would you want people to accept it at face value, or would you hope that they'd take time and do the research necessary to see what is actually true?

My real problem with your post is this: why make a post entitled "My person thoughts on Rutland Manor" when you have NO personal experience with RM or Beverley? How can you possibly have anything worth hearing to say? Your post proves that the only thing you are basing your opinion off of is gossip and hate mongering. I would think that before you speak about someone publicly, you might try to fact find, like calling or e-mailing Beverley to discuss what is truth and what is fiction. Your reluctance to do so proves your bias. This post was never about your opinion, it was about spreading more animosity.

As someone with personal experience with Rutland Manor Labradoodles and Beverley, this is the truth:

Beverley and the Rutland Manor staff put the well-being of their dogs and doing the right thing above profit. I know this personally because, when I could not afford a labradoodle, which was to be used as a service dog, Beverley called me herself and told me one would be donated to my family. And, if we could not afford shipping, she would pay to ship the dog to the US for us. I am not alone - there are dozens and dozens of donated RM doodles out there. Breeding pairs have even been donated to service organizations, so they could supply their own service dogs to those in needs.

When I took my RM doodle to a leading animal behaviorist to begin training, my trainer constantly commented about how far along she was in her training; that is was VERY obvious that her breeder had been devoting time to her since birth. She was about a 6 months to a year ahead of other dogs her age.

I have spoken to NUMEROUS people who have spent time ON Rutland Manor (some staying a couple months at a time) and they ALL sing the praises of Rutland Manor, Beverley and her staff. After the first attacks were made against Beverley earlier this year, there were several dog experts, who believed that RM might be a puppy mill, who came and stayed on site. They wrote legally binding testimonies stating that RM is in fact a wonderful, loving place where labradoodles and horses alike get tons of love, attention and are well cared for in a clean environment.

Beverley closed her waiting list several times a year so that the wait doesn't become too long.

If she were a puppy mill, or only breeding for profit and not at all concerned for the well-being of her animals, why would she do this? If the allegations were true, she'd be breeding 50 dogs nonstop and raking in as much cash as possible. And she certainly would not be donating dogs to those in need left and right.

I find it baffling that people believe everything they read on the internet without any proof.

If you want to know the truth about Rutland Manor, ask the hundreds of families who have visited and stayed on site. Ask the thousands of families with RM doodles. Ask the thousands of people who consider Beverley a friend.

Ask Beverley herself.

But do not go around spreading information that you do not know to be fact. Also: consider the source of this information. Would you rather support an extremist who endangers the lives of humans, encourages people to break the law, and break into Beverley's property time and time again, who can provide NO documented proof to support her claims? Or would you rather support a woman who has spent 22 years developing this breed we all love, and who, to this day, even in the face of these attacks, continues to focus on her work and continues her charitable contributions?

When is enough enough?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

EXCUSE ME!
Who are you to come into a discussion in this very active, helpful, and usually friendly social forum of over 5000 members and make such a statement as:
"How can you possibly have anything worth hearing to say?"
You have contributed nothing at all to this website other than a defense of Beverly Manners. You have joined none of our many groups, participated in none of our discussions other than this one, posted no photos, and according to your page, you don't even currently own a doodle. You have used our community here as a platform for your own agenda, and now you dare to presume to be the judge of whether another member here has something to say that is worth hearing?
Boy, if nerve were money, you'd be Bill Gates.
Every member of Doodle Kisses has the right to express his or her own opinions, and to respectfully question others' opinions. You do not have the right to determine the worth of anyone else's comments for anybody but yourself. No one here has been rude to you. If you don't think something is worth hearing, then don't read it.