How much is too much to spend on a doodle?

[Jodi Edsall]

I spent $1200 for Bailey and she is a great dog. A year later, I spent $186 on Murphy and he is a great dog. Both are loved members of our family. But my husband still reminds me that $1200 was a lot. I just inquired about a goldendoodle that was advertised (acturally there are three of them and they are 17 weeks old). The breeder said that they were originally $2300 but since they are getting older that he has lowered the price to $1800. Does anyone else think that is a lot to spend?

[Adina P]

I agree...at least that's how it seems to me. Money made is from a lot of time invested. The key in your statement Todd is "If done properly it is not a way to make money." [emphasis mine]

I've never bred so I can't know from experience...but I was doing some rough estimates of what it would take to make even $40,000 a year from breeding (that's far from wealthy!) and it would require essentially having a litter on the ground basically all year long--and that's assuming NO costs for any testing or anything and charging $1200 per pup in an average litter of 6. A litter of 6 is constant supervision, cleaning, etc--to be raised RIGHT...it's not a clock in at 9am and clock out at 5pm kinda job. I imagine in some ways it's like the life of a farmer...starts early...ends late!

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

OH I forgot! Stud service in my arena costs $2500+ add pre breeding cost testing for brucellosis. Annual health testing on all dogs

Then add if I want to use a stud out of the area
Artificial Insemination kit $90
Overnight deliver of AI kit to stud's vet $70
Daily progesterone testing of my girl $50 a day
Collection of stud $150
Overnight shipping of semen to my vet using the AI kit $70+ (not counting that it costs more on the weekend and holiday and that usually when it takes place.
Girl needs AI'd twice so double the cost of shipping and AI kits and collection costs!
NOT CHEAP

I have 2 boys stored on ice, that costs about $500.00 per male per year... they may never get used but are too valuable to not store.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I dont know what the numbers are Kingston. But even if the whole $12,000 on my first 6 pups was used to recoup the initial expenses my next litters are basicially pure profit. My breeder has several litters a year and several dogs. I can name a few other breeders that do this as well.I bet you any money her annual income exceeds a lot of people working a 9 - 5 job in a highrise somewhere. I am not saying there is anything at all wrong with making a living off of breeding dogs!

The point I was trying to make is that I dont think they are the only ones who should be allowed to produce pups, and a lot of the context in these replies implies such. I was using my Kaela as an example only, of course she is being spayed at the end of November; but if I was so inclined I dont think there is anything wrong with it.

[Adina P]

Well I think anyone should be 'allowed' legally (save for animal cruelty/mill situations)...but how is it justified for anyone TO actually breed? Anyone should be ALLOWED to have a house, car, big screen TV....but not everyone CAN or 'should' in the sense of a moral imperative: ''You SHOULD have a large screen TV!''
Not sure if that distinction made sense.

So no govt should be telling you NOT to breed Thule (were she not spayed) but by what reasoning would I rationalize doing so? Does she have a superior conformation or shape? Does she come from some incredibly healthy-pup producing parents that would make her genes a GOOD thing to pass on (unknown...likely no)? Was she VERY easy to train (NO)?
She's a dog I love...and perhaps in the olden days where everyone depended on neighbors to make puppies because there weren't shelters brimming and it was farmland after farmland... few more Thules would be fine to make even with risks of no health testing (there was none). But there's no shortage of dogs of all kinds nowadays. We KNOW more about genetics, health, heredity, breeding.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

True you dont have to redo the health testing costs but all of the rest of the cost are still there, and the 2nd litter is far from all profit. Take out the testing cost and you are now at hypothetically 2 puppies profit. But we didnt mention you should only breed if you have breeding rights for your dog. Most breeders who are resposible sell on a spay/neuter clause and you have to pay more for "breeding rights". This ensures the original breeder of your dogs interests are protected, are they choose a dog that is of the highest quality and of the correct type to be chosen to continue the breed. More cost, and taking this into account you are out your profit form the first litter and the second litter.

Now, beign said I do agree that who should and should not be allowed to breed is a totally different topic than is it profitable ON A SMALL SCALE. Once you talk about multiple females and multiple litters, well that is another can of worms that I think is best left for the debate topic that just got started.

One thought, if a breeder will only sell their puppies as a pet to live in a house, not as a kennel dog outside (vast majority of breeders ensure this) then should we not expect that ALL of their dogs are kept in the same manner, ie not kenneled outside???? HHHMMMMM

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"a nice family having a litter from their own 2 pets, and I feel they have every right to do it without health testing, like you and I have the right to breed and produce babies without guarantees."
Reg, my friend, the difference is that you & I did not breed & produce babies for the purpose of selling them.
You have a right to bake a cake for your family, and use any kind of ingredients & methods you want. When you bake that cake for the purpose of selling it, however, you have to adhere to laws concerning where the ingredients came from, how they were shipped, how fresh they are, how clean your kitchen was, what temperature you baked it at, etc., etc.
But to breed & sell dogs, all you have to do is own a dog or two.

[Adina P]

THAT is the key! I have had others debate this with me and bring up the whole 'well what about babies...we don't do health testing on ourselves before having babies!' Well...what you said is key! My baby is guaranteeeeed a home with me. I'm not selling it. No rehoming will be involved and no matter what I'm keeping it. I'm not birthing litters in November that Ill sell to others :)

[fergie11]

I think everyone is getting to deep here and as we know that argument has been argued to death at other times. I think it's just a little simple question of "do we think it's too much?" So I'll chime in on the simpler side of it: It's all about your personal finances and what you can afford. Can you afford $1800? And the other side of the coin is (thinking like your husband) even if you can should you when like you said your $186 puppy is wonderful too,. I paid what I could afford. I could not afford $1800 and if that is what i would of had to pay, I could not have got a doodle. I'm happy there other options because Fergie is truly the love of my life right now (outside of my immediate family). My idea of $1800 and yours will always be two different things. Another way to look at it though is you'll have this dog for about 15 yrs. Amortize that $1800 over all that time and it doesn't come out to be much. Yes, in this case, $$$ can buy love. I don't know -- if you can afford it and you met the puppy and feel comfortable with the breeder - go for it. Are there any cheaper breeders around you that you've found? Maybe that's an option.

[Adina P]

There will always be cheaper breeders than $1800. ALWAYS.

My question to everyone is just because you can't spend a certain amount...does it mean a cheaper breeder is worth paying? For me it would be NO...I would just not get a doodle, I'd get a different breed or wait till the right rescue came along that was a good match or buy a fish.

There's someone somewhat local to me who sells GDs, LDs, thisapoo and thatapoo, and various other small breed mix-a-this and mix-a-thats--some for less than $100!!! Great low price...but there's no way in the world I'd buy from this 'breeder' because there's no way this person can keep up on best practice for so many breeds. Not a chance. Chances are this family bought their dogs from similarly untested, unverified 'breeders'. And they are a 'nice' 'Christian' family.

[fergie11]

I'm glad I didn't feel that way and don't because I wouldn't have the love I've gotten from both my girls and I'd be very sad today. I had my heart set on a doodle and figured somwhere I could find one I could afford and I did, without going to a puppy-mill.

[Adina P]

I hear what you're saying......you got a wonderful dog you love from a breeder you were satisfied with at a lower price and you are happy with that. I know nothing about your breeder, so please don't take this as a slam against your breeder or your choice. Honestly.

But purely for arguments' sake. Adrianne Matzkin is also THRILLED with her Samantha (who did come from a mill she later discovered)...does one's satisfaction with one's dog make the BREEDER a good breeder? Do the ends (a happy doodle owner with a less expensive dog) justify the means (buying cheaply from someone with poor breeding practice)? (Again not speaking about YOU, but in general).

[Richard Crowe]

Before we got our Holly from Cheyenne Valley Kennels; we were negotiating for a Goldendoodle puppy from a rescue group that is based out of Los Angeles and advertises on petfinder.com. The rescue group wanted $600 for this puppy of unknown parentage and quality. That was a pretty high price for a rescue dog but, we submitted our application. We figured that we would be a slam dunk for adopting a puppy since at that time, Judy was the American Maltese Association Rescue Coordinator for the West Coast and we had a great relationship with out vet and multitudes of references.

We waited weeks for a reply and tried calling up the agency. We left a message on their phone and received a curt email reply which stated, "Please do not contact us - we will contact you!" That is when we said, "The heck with that!" We began searching for a reputable breeder. Several weeks after we had placed a deposit on the puppy who was to become our Holly, the adoption agency called us and said. "Congratulations, you may adopt one of our puppies!" We replied, thanks! but, no thanks! It had been almost seven weeks from the time we submitted the application to when we received confirmation.

Although we are very much supporters of rescue adoptions (see out blogs regarding Sweetie and her two puppies) we are very happy that we decided on Holly. We cannot place a dollar value on this girl. It's hard to believe but, each day we love her more. Tonight, she starts her Therapy Dog Bootcamp so she can share some of her love with other people.