Homecooking for your Doodles

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

A place to talk about feeding our doodles a variety of home-cooked foods, with recipes included. Ask questions, check on safe ingredients, share some tips. Please see The DK Cookbook Group for recipes, too!
http://doodlekisses.com/group/dkcookbook

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

I use broccoli and cauliflower (mostly just the floret part, not much stems), but in moderation, like Karen said. My guys like spinach and lima beans, too. Everything in moderation.

[Krista, Angel, and Toby]

Alright. I give up trying to find a good commercial food that is both reputable, healthy, and tasty enough for Angel to eat. So I've committed myself to cooking for her. Today I made up a batch of food. A box of brown rice, about 4 lbs of chopped meat, a can of peas, a can of carrots, and a bag of crasins. (I also bought quite a bit of chicken leg quarters, as they were on sale in Sams. I meant to put the chicken in the batch of food I made, but Angel was too hungry to wait for it to be done, so I added that with the remaining beef and froze it. I'll use that for the next batch of food I make. (And I have 4 more uncooked leg/thighs in the freezer. I only cooked up two, which made a boatload of meat!) I figure I have enough meat to last a month...or at least a few weeks. And all in all -- browning the meat and boiling and boning the chicken included -- it took about an hour and cost less than a bag of food.

I plan on giving her a cup of kibble (which is currently Innova small bites) with a cup of the stew in the morning, laying out a bowl with a cup of kibble for her to nibble on, and if she doesn't use what's left to mix with dinner. (If she does nibble on it then I'll add a 1/2 cup to dinner's mix...)

Does this sound reasonable? At moments it seems fine, and then at moments it seems like I'd be overfeeding her. Any other suggestions? I admit I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I did read the most recent ones, especially those who have shared what they've done so far, so if my question is already answered in another thread, by all means, please point it out.

Thank you!!

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

You might try not mixing the kibble in. Just leave it out for grazing throughout the day and see how her hunger is. I never mix in kibble, it's always out and available. I don't see them at it much but will grab a bite here and there.

My main meal of the day for the dogs is dinnertime. Jack is 95# and he gets about 1 1/4 c homecooked (HC). Ginger is 50# and she gets about 1 c HC. Jazzy and Cody are about 30# and get about 3/4 c HC.

Some of it is trial and error and feeling out amounts and what she likes. Good Luck and welcome to the world of Homecooking Dog Food. LOL

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I hope Lynne and some of the other homecookers will reply to this. It does sound like a lot of food, (3 and a half cups per day total combined homecooked & kibble?) but I don't know how old Angel is or how much kibble she normally gets.
Your ingredients sound fine. You may want to check this recent discussion about adding vitamins or supplements to homecooked food, although if Angel is eating a fair amount of kibble, she may not need much else.
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/supplem...
Hopefully Lynne will chime in here.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Now that Taquito (chihuahua) has been diagnosed with underlying kidney disease (from the pet food recalls of 2007 - severe trauma to kidneys I am now finding out), my vet wants him switched soon to the prescription kidney diet (Hills of course). I am hesitant and interested in looking into homecooking for him. Any ideas for lower protein diets with very, very low salt contents? The salt is the key. I am already eliminating all treats for him (which can be very high in salt) and will feed carrots and eggs as a treat.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The macronutrient proportions in the Hills k/d dry food are:
Protein 14.7
Fat 19.4
Carbohydrate (NFE) 59.4
Crude Fiber 2.3
Soluble Fiber 0.8

So to duplicate that, you'd need a plain unsalted animal protein source...say chicken...mixed with rice, also unsalted, in a 1 to 4 proportion. 1 part chicken to 4 parts rice.
Have to go pick up grandson; BRB

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I really find it hard to believe that it's good for anyone to eat a diet that contains more fat than protein; but that's what this formula contains. 20% fat, 15% protein, and 60% carbs, approximately. The ingredient sources for these are cheap & abominable:
Brewers Rice, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Beet Pulp, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Threonine, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, Magnesium Oxide, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

The area I highlighted is the only part that contains actual food; the rest is fiber, vitamins, and minerals. I think we can do better than that. If you want to duplicate this with homecooking, we can do the protein & the carbs fairly easily & much better; I'm trying to figure out the fat & fiber. And you'd have to give a multi-vitamin. For a dog with kidney disease, the meals DO have to be "complete and balanced".
Let's look at Flint River's formulas.
http://www.aplus-flint-river-ranch.com/article-prescriptionpetfoodd...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Flint's Senior formula nutritional analysis:
Crude Protein (Min.) 16.0%
Crude Fat (Min.) 8.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 5.0%
Carbohydrates (Avg.) 52.0%
Ingredients:

Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Ground Whole Wheat, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols - healthy antioxidants - and ascorbic acid), Oat Bran, Lamb Meal, dried whole egg, fish meal, brewer's dried yeast, wheat germ meal, lecithin, dried kelp, dehydrated alfalfa meal, salt, potassium chloride, monosodium phosphate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, dl-Alpha tocopherol acetate (source of Vitamin E), zinc oxide, sodium selenite, manganous oxide, riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B2), copper sulfate, amino acid chelates of zinc, iron, manganese, copper, cobalt, niacin, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin B12 supplement, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, D-Biotin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), calcium iodate, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, and Vitamin D3 supplement.
This looks much better to me. The fat is lower, the protein is very close, the carbs are slightly lower, the fiber is slightly higher, and the ingredients are a million times better.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

YES! I remember you mentioning this when I brought up his kidney issues earlier. This little discussion should probably not be in the homecooking section, but this is definitely something I am going to try.
I don't want to make any drastic changes, but I am concerned for his wellbeing and want to make informed decisions about his food.
I do plan to do homecooked treats from now on. Or just raw veggies and good stuff like that. Thanks as always.
Karen, do you think the Flint River offers the best Senior product out there?
And one more thing to add: this situation shows the importance of the Food Group. If I had this knowledge a few years back, I would have never fed him the chicken treats from china. Which was proven to "cause kidney failure" and killed many dogs. Taquito was lucky to have survived, but he is paying for it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's the whole reason for this group. Lynne's sweet standard poodle, Magic, was not as lucky. That's our whole purpose, to do our best to make sure that none of our FG members' dogs ever have to suffer the way Magic did.
With the treats, be sure not to do the high protein treats like liver treats. ordinarily, protein is very good for dogs, but in the case of a senior with kidney disease, the protein has to be kept low.
I'm go to start researching the other senior foods. Will report back.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Many, many thanks. I will look into the senior options as well! I know that Hills stuff usually is not well liked by dogs. Tack was on it for digestive issues for about 2 days before I threw it out.
Of course I know about Magic and I am thankful that one good thing has come out of those terrible recalls: making us have discussions like this. When dogs are sick from food, it is a very, very helpless feeling. I was litterally eating dog food to try to make him eat.
Definitely eliminating the liver treats. Those will be reserved for Peri's training. Taquito likes those so much :(

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Maybe he can have a few liver treats if you deduct it from his overall daily "rations", lol.
Dog food analysis site is down at the moment, but I did find one interesting thing so far about the Hill's. The sodium content is .23%. I looked at Innova's senior food, and the sodium content was only .11%. And the Innova isn't even specially formulated for kidney problems, it's just for older dogs. So apparently, the Hill's isn't even all that low in sodium. I'm going to keep comparing.