DNA TEST F1B maybe not an F1B?

[Annie]

HI~

I am considering getting a DNA test for my goldendoodle and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them.  I am skeptical that the breeder was honest with me about Fiona's parents.  She is supposedly an F1B but has no facial furnishings like both her parents and the 75% poodle really isn't there.  She sheds a lot also.  We paid a lot of money for her and I want to be sure we got what we paid for.  She's a sweet girl and no matter what she is ours, but I want to know for sure and hold the breeder accountable.  I am disappointed with her response to me and can now see it's a business transaction for her and that is it.  She does not care about her dogs one bit.  Thank you for any input!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The curl gene has incomplete dominance. One copy results in a wavy coat. Two copies, a curly coat, none at all, a straight coat.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We know for a fact that there are open faced doodles, and even open faced F1Bs. Look at Lori's Pippa. 

[Ginny Nightingale]

I don't disagree--just wondering how it happens genetically--I am not familiar with that occurrence. 

[Lori, Daphne, Lucy & Pippa]

My Pippa has a poodle parent and a golden doodle parent. She has an open face. I actually saw her father (poodle). She looks just like a tiny Golden retriever and she sheds tons. There is always the possibility that I was lied to but I just don't think so. Out of her seven siblings, five were doodly and the other two looked just like her.

[Ginny Nightingale]

Maybe this will make you feel better--a pup at 8 weeks, 20 weeks and one year. No guarantee you will see the same transition, but you never know.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I see the chrysanthemum on that pup, though. And the longer hair around the muzzle.

[Stella]

Beautiful looking dog!! Did you say this was an F1b? I would have sworn was an F1. But, as others have said you can even get multigens that appear to be 'missing' their poodle genes! If I remember correctly, I think they are referred to as 'throwbacks' - resembling a dog in their ancestry that they really shouldn't have enough genes to look like!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's right, I've seen breeders call them "throwbacks", too. 

[Bonne Bouche]

My Mom's mom used to breed and show lhasa apsos. I recall a story of a "throwback" puppy they called "nhatso apso"  (not-so-apso) ;-]

[Adina P]

That is my ideal look.  This is what I originally wanted :-)  Not that I'm complaining...Rosco rocks!

[Stella]

Yep, I love the F1 shaggy dog look!!

[Ginny Nightingale]

Ok--I found some info---poodles do carry two genes for facial furnishings meaning that an F1B has to have at least one gene for facial furnishings and since it is a dominant gene, any F1B would have facial furnishings.

Here is what i found (paragraph below)--the F1 labradoodle could carry just one of the RSPO2 genes and have furnishings, but when paired with a poodle, which has two of those genes, the puppy would get at least one RSPO2 gene and would therefore have furnishings.... so I don't know how there could be an exception to this!

"Furnishings are inherited in a dominant fashion meaning that dogs only need to inherit a single copy of the RSPO2 mutation from one of their parents in order to develop the characteristic, long facial hair. However, this can create a dilemma for breeders because dogs with only one copy of the mutation are, by definition, carriers of improper coat despite their own “proper” appearance. If bred with another carrier of improper coat, about 25% of the puppies will be born without furnishings. This is a particular concern for breeders of hybrid dogs such as the labradoodle, because the poodle is known to be “fixed” for the furnishings trait (two copies of the RSPO2 mutation), while the Labrador does not have furnishings (no copies of the mutation). Since puppies inherit one copy of a gene from each parent, every puppy from a poodle-Labrador pairing would have one copy of each gene variant resulting in puppies that have furnishings. However, each of these puppies will also carry the gene variant that results in short facial hair (improper coat carrier)."