Giardia

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Guinness had his four year check up and shots last week, and I brought a stool sample which I do every year.  He's had no symptoms of anything and has fantastic poops with his special diet.  He's had no flare ups of the IBS in well over a year, and no parasites of any type.  All in all, he's been really healthy.  As a young puppy he did have a horrible case of Giardia which it took weeks to get rid of.  Anyway, to get to the point the Vet called to say that he was shedding the Giardia cysts and needed to be treated....and of course they also will treat Murph because he's in the household.  Tomorrow I'll go and pick up the panacur and metronidazole and we'll start that "process" which I know from experience will take several weeks. 

That's nothing new or even interesting, but my conversation with the Vet really got me thinking.  She said that it's running rampant in our area, so she's not in the least bit surprised.  Basically any dog being walked in our parks, bike paths, or going to daycare is being exposed.  When I asked why she said she had a theory but no scientific proof that it was the case...just her supposition.  She feels that puppies are being given metronidazole and/or panacur often before they even leave their litter by the breeders.  The idea the breeders have is that they want to rid them of giardia before leaving for their homes, and they don't bother to test (because it's so prevalent).  Then they get to their homes and often they are still infected and so they go on another round or two, and so it goes.  They eventually build a tolerance to the meds and the parasites continue to survive and infest the ground and ultimately other dogs who come in contact with that ground. Karen has said that she had lots of concerns with the frequency of metronidazole being prescribed, and so I found this thought provoking.  If all this is true, it's a bleak picture. 

[Bonnie and Kona]

OMD, Jane!!! NOOOOO! I'm so sorry you have to treat the boys with medication and deal with the whole poop machine becomes the life of giardia families... only instead of one little puppy you have two full grown doodles. YIKES. 

I wonder about the vet's perspective. I am not thrilled with medications after having many complications arise from 13 years of Chronic Daily Migraines and trying a variety of preventatives and abortives. Her theory seems believable to me. 

I hope this ordeal is less horrendous for you than it sounds and that it ends quickly. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

What a mess!  Vet theory sounds plausible to me.  Here's to Guinness (and Murphy) get better sooner rather than the Giardia hanging around for another cycle of meds.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Jane, I am so sorry. What a nightmare. Get better soon, Guinness!

[Camilla and Darwin]

I'm very sorry, how horrible. Your vet's theory is quite frightening...

[Joanna, Zoe & Bender]

poor Guiness!   

[Star and Goldie]

Goldie had her fecal today to see if the Giardia is gone. Even if it comes back negative I know we aren't out of the woods completely since it will only show positive if she is shedding the cyst shells.

With this round of Giardia I've been wondering if any place is truly safe. I'm surprised there is not some type of vaccination for Giardia considering how chronic and dangerous it can become. Even a healthy and fully vaccinated puppy is at the same risk for Giardia as any other. It's discouraging to think about :(

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Oh Jane, so sorry. At least they weren't sick and hopefully won't get sick now that you're treating. I hope the Flagyl doesn't upset their tummies, especially Guinness. Your Vets theory is very plausible as humans, bacteria and protozoans can all build up resistance to Flagyl. It'is a pretty potent antibiotic. Please keep us posted. I will check in to see how you are all doing.

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Oh no Jane..Im so sorry to hear this about Guinness.. What your vet said makes alot of sense.  I have never heard of so many cases of this.  Get well soon Guinness!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

OMD, so sorry to hear this! Apparently you caught it early though, since Guinness had no symptoms. I wonder if the Panacur wouldn't be enough without the metronidazole. The metro is the one I really worry about, and since it's not as effective for giardia as Panacur anyway, maybe it's not needed? Or maybe he needs it because he had such a tough time getting rid of it the first time? 

As I've mentioned before, I never heard of giardia until I started particpating in the doodle forums. Neither of my two puppies before JD ever had it. In both cases, when they were born, they were the only litters at their homes from birth until they went home, and they only went outdoors in enclosed areas to which no other dogs (or other animals) had access except their mothers. 

JD has never gotten it either, which is amazing, especially considering the fact that I had a foster with raging giardia that wasn't diagnosed until he had been here for three days. My vet prescribed three days of Panacur only (no metro) and that took care of it. 

I don't like metronidazole, and I especially don't like the way vets prescribe it without even doing a fecal or knowing what is wrong with the dog. It seems that every puppy with digestive issues has been through several courses of metronidazole. It really does a number on the gut flora. Recently, a Food Group member's dog had diarrhea, and the vet prescribed Rx food and metronidazole without doing a fecal. When we told her to insist on a fecal, she did, and guess what? The dog came up positive for giardia. The vet then prescribed Panacur. What if she hadn't asked us? If nothing else, you need to know about the giardia so you can disinfect and prevent reinfection. 

There is one theory that too many worming meds and antibiotics in puppyhood sets a dog up for IBD down the road by causing chronic bacterial imbalance in the gut. I have no idea if that's true, but it's one more reason that we really need to question whether our dogs need these meds before just blindly giving them. I am a huge proponent of treating diagnosed illnesses and conditions with medications that are proven to be effective; by no means do I subscribe to the "all drugs are bad, I want natural remedies only" school of thought, as most of you know. IAnything that is powerful enough to be effective is powerful enough to have side effects, "natural" or not. But neither do I subscribe to giving meds when they are not needed, or giving meds without knowing what you are treating. 

Good luck with the treatment, Jane. I hope it works fast and the boys have no digestive upsets. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

To the second to last paragraph, Amen.

[Julie and Charlie]

It seems like a never-ending cycle. I wonder if there is any long-term data from the labs that test on prevalence.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And a reminder to anyone reading this, when your dog is on any kind of antibiotic, but especially metronidazole (flagyl), it is crucial that you give him probiotics throughout the antibiotics treatment. Do not give the probiotics within 2 hours of the antibiotics.